A Little Bit Richer podcast

Kia: Hi. It's Kia. Financial abuse is a phrase that is becoming more and more widely used in modern society, partly thanks to high profile cases such as Britney Spears's controversial conservatorship where her family were in control of her earnings for many years. So it's a particularly important topic this week: how to recognize different forms of economic abuse and what you can do to help friends or family who might be experiencing this.

With me today is Katie Binns, an award- winning journalist who investigates financial abuse. Before we get into the episode, I just want to note that we'll be speaking about topics including domestic and economic abuse and coercive control, just flagging in case that's a trigger. We'll be including some places to go to for support in the show notes too. Okay, let's get into it. So Katie, financial abuse is a topic we're all becoming more aware of, partly due to celebrities such as Britney Spears, Mel B, and Kesha going public about having been subjected to it. Could you start by explaining more about what financial abuse is, please?

Katie: Yes. Financial abuse is something that is more common than you might think. One statistic that always shocks me and that I think is worth knowing is that 6 million people in the UK will experience financial abuse at some point in their lives. Shocking, isn't it?

Kia: 6 million?

Katie: Yeah, 6 million. That's what the latest research shows. And it involves someone, and this someone can be an abusive partner, an abusive friend, an abusive carer, an abusive family member, essentially denying you access to your finances and things that you own. And sadly, it doesn't exist in isolation. It doesn't happen in isolation. It happens alongside other forms of domestic abuse. And it can be someone controlling how you spend money, denying you access to work, running up debt in your name, refusing to pay joint bills, giving you a weekly allowance.

And I'm really glad that you mentioned Britney, Mel B, and Kesha, because they show us that financial abuse can happen to anyone. It doesn't matter how rich you are, how famous you are, how connected you are. Anyone can become a victim of financial abuse. I know that in the case of Britney, even though she was earning millions from her Las Vegas residency, she was given a weekly allowance. She didn't have access to her credit card. When I interviewed Mel B years ago, she told me how, when she left her husband, she didn't have access to her bank account. She didn't have a debit card. She didn't even have the money to put down for a deposit for a rental property.

Kia: Wow.

Katie: Yeah. Really wow, wow, wow. And in the case of Kesha, there's allegations of her being forced to work against her will with an abusive music executive. So three different women, three different situations, but they all really hammer the point that anyone can be a victim of financial abuse.

Kia: I think, like you said, when you see it not just from a normal person's perspective but from a celebrity's, it really just does show-

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: ... how prevalent it is.

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: And that it can happen to absolutely anyone. And the amount of power you have doesn't exclude you from that happening-

Katie: Doesn't matter.

Kia: ... to you.

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: I think wow. That's really powerful. So Katie, what are the signs of economic abuse then?

Katie: So economic abuse looks different in different situations. And actually, it can be really difficult to identify. Every person I've ever interviewed about their experience of financial abuse always says to me, " It started so gradually. And I thought they were so caring the way they offered to help me with my finances. And I thought it was really sensible that what they were suggesting." And so it starts gradually. That's one of the key things about financial abuse. And it can be sabotaging your access to income.

So we're talking about someone limiting the hours you work, maybe limiting your access to education and training so that you can work or maybe earn more money. It can be restricting your access to your finances. So someone essentially controlling how you spend or making you justify your spending, making you go through your receipts to justify your spending. Maybe giving you a weekly allowance, making you ask for money. Maybe gaining access to your benefits, restricting your use of your car, restricting your use of a mobile phone to apply for a job or something.

It can be exploiting your finances. So this is where we're talking about someone stealing your money, taking out debt in your name, which is truly devastating. It can be someone refusing to pay their part of the joint bills. It can be someone damaging your property, which obviously causes you financial harm. It looks different in different situations. And of course, this might make people really nervous about the idea of joint finances. And I'd hate that because joint finances are a brilliant way to manage your finances in a couple. Billions of couples benefit from joint finances, myself included. So joint finances are certainly a brilliant way to manage your finances and not to be scared of it just because of what we're discussing now.

Kia: I think it's such a wide spectrum-

Katie: Right.

Kia: ... of signs that you mentioned there that even just listening to you detail some of those, I'm like, sometimes you have friends who confide in you about things about their partners. I can almost identify certain situations where that could have led to that. It hasn't-

Katie: No.

Kia: ... fortunately, from anyone that I know personally. But it opens up to your mind to what it could look like-

Katie: Yes, yes.

Kia: ... and begin to move into, which I think is just very key for people to be aware of.

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: So we can see how devastating economic abuse can be for people. Like you said, we've read so many stories about people that it's happened to. So is it classified as a crime now then?

Katie: So economic abuse is recognized by the law. Since 2021 it's included in the definition of domestic abuse in the Domestic Abuse Act. However, this doesn't make economic abuse a crime in its own right. What this inclusion in the Domestic Abuse Act means is that police and other agencies should be aware of the issue of financial abuse and they should be more likely to recognize a pattern of financially abusive behaviors as coercive and controlling behavior.

And this is the really important part because financially abusive behaviors are recognized and prosecuted under the coercive or controlling behavior offense. And people have been prosecuted and sentenced to prison for financially abusive behaviors under the Controlling or Coercive Behavior Act.

Kia: I think that's good to know that there is that out there. So if someone is experiencing that, you can pursue a legal route and see where that does take you. So I think it is good to know that that is there. How can we take action? So whether it's someone who is experiencing economic abuse themselves or whether we know someone close to us that-

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: ... we believe experiencing that themselves?

Katie: There is help available. There are things that you can do. So if you are a victim, there is a hardship fund that you can apply to via the wonderful charity Women's Aid. I think you can apply for up to 500 pounds. Your bank may be able to help you. TSB, for example, has an emergency flee fund. HSBC has its safe spaces in all of its branches. Interestingly, your employer may be able to help you. Just a few days ago, I saw in the news that Kellogg's has put together an employee benefits package essentially for its employees who find themselves in domestic situations and that they want to help.

So your employer might be able to help you. If you have a joint current account with your partner and you want to deal with it, then you must speak to your bank about that. That's something you can do now.

It used to be that to close a joint bank account down, you'd have to have the two parties put in writing that wish. Now because of Domestic Abuse Act, that rule has been eased. So if you need to deal with a joint account, you must speak to your bank or building society. Another interesting one is the credit reference agencies. So Experian, TransUnion, they've set up a password system so that if your abuser tries to take out credit in your name, the password will stop them.

And so obviously that's a brilliant system to have in place. There's also the charity Surviving Economic Abuse, which is an excellent source of support for victims. They have a telephone support line, they have a survivor's forum.

If you are in that unfortunate position where you are watching a loved one who is in that position, what can you do? Well, again, there are things. It's about being there for them, telling them that you're concerned, telling them that you're there for them, that help is available, some of the help that I've just mentioned, for example. And to keep checking in with them because, more often than not, it takes people time to make a decision or to act.

I think be careful what you say around their abuser and be careful what you put in messages because their abuser might be reading them. That's another big one. Always have information about domestic abuse to hand so that you're ready for them whenever they're ready. Obviously it's a no- brainer if you're in a position to help them, lend them money, offer them a spare room. And I think emotional support is a big one that you can offer. De- linking in your finances from someone can be a lengthy process, so emotional support is a big one.

Kia: That's some amazing advice that you've given there. And I think even hearing how much building societies and banks and credit reference agencies are actually putting in place to help victims, I think, is stuff that even I didn't know was there. But it's really good for people to know about whether they're in that situation now or maybe they're not, but maybe that does happen later down the line just to know that you can-

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: ... do those things. And if you are someone who is observant, it happens to a loved one-

Katie: Yeah.

Kia: Then everything that you mentioned there is just really key and crucial. Thank you so much for your thoughts on this, Katie. As we all learn more about financial abuse, are there ways that the situation is getting more positive? For example, are there three things that are giving you hope?

Katie: Definitely, Kia. I think the first that the law recognizes economic abuse, the fact that people have been prosecuted and sentenced to time in prison for financially abusive behaviors. That's something that we can take heart from. I think the fact that banks and building societies are equipped to help you, they have specially trained staff. And increasingly, other companies and sectors and industries are training their staff to recognize the signs of financial abuse.

And I suppose the most positive thing I've encountered over the last five years of writing about financial abuse is the charity Surviving Economic Abuse. They are a brilliant charity and they have campaigned and advocated and supported victim survivors for something like six or seven years now. And we can take heart from everything that they're doing. They're really changing things.

Kia: Thank you so much, Katie, for coming on to the podcast to talk about this really important topic. I think it's something that isn't spoken about enough, but it's something that's very important. And you've shared so much insight and so much advice for people who are either in that situation or may have friends or family or loved ones who could potentially be in that to know where to go for help and just have a better understanding of what people could be going through.

Thank you to Katie for coming onto the podcast and for all of her work on this important issue. If you are affected by anything we've spoken about today, there are links in a description to relevant resources and charities who can help. If you enjoyed the episode, then you know the drill. Follow the podcast, tell all of your friends, and come back next week where I'll be talking about all things investing. See you then.

Kia: Hey. It is Kia. The world of investments can sometimes seem like a really murky, confusing place. There's a lot of loud voices on the internet talking about stuff like Bitcoin and NFTs, and it can really make investments seem like an extremely risky thing, that's only for the chosen few. If you have some money that you'd like to see grow, then this episode should be able to help you understand what to consider and be wary of.

There are different levels of risk and you don't have to be a tech bro to get investing. With me to get into all of this is Timi Merriman-Johnson. Timi is the founder of Mr MoneyJar, a financial education company, and he's also a podcast star and author. So Timi, let's get into it. Can you give me a very entry level explanation on what investing actually is and what is and isn't considered an investment?

Timi: Sure thing. And thanks for having me here. I like to think of investing as a long- term form of saving where we set aside money today in expectation of a return in the future. If we don't expect the return, then we might be gambling or speculating, and if we expect the return right away, then we're trading. So it's just very important to know the difference between those three things.

Kia: I think that's very key. I think sometimes when you think about investing, you think about people with those charts, like you said, the trading, but I think that breakdown really just makes it simple for people to understand. So really and truly, anyone who has something like a workplace pension is already an investor, right?

Timi: Yeah, absolutely. So in the UK at the moment, if you work for a company and you earn more than 10, 000 pounds per tax year and you're age over 22, you'll be auto-enrolled into a pension. And this money isn't saved in cash. It's actually invested for you, albeit very much happening in the background over the course of your career so that when you come to retire you have a pot of money to either stop working or to work a bit less. So yes, if you pay into workplace pension, you're already an investor, which is a fantastic thing.

Kia: So let's bring it back then. So if we're talking someone who's brand new to investing, what are the products that they should consider looking at?

Timi: So there's a few different types of investing accounts you can use. There are stocks and shares ISAs. There are lifetime stocks and shares ISAs, and there are also pension accounts, which we just mentioned, they're also a type of investment account. But if you're a beginner, you may want to start investing into a fund in a stocks and shares ISA as that lends itself well to people who are investing for the first time.

Kia: So how does that work? Is it, you just put money into that and that gets invested on your behalf if you put your money to a fund?

Timi: When you open a stocks and shares ISA with an investment platform, you have to nominate a bank account that you're going to top up that stocks and shares ISA with and then you can choose which fund you want to put that money into, so it's a two-step process.

Kia: But it makes that process a lot easier. You don't have to figure out what to actually invest into, specific stocks. It just makes it beginner- friendly. You put your money in there and I guess, invest on your behalf.

Timi: Yeah.

Kia: Amazing.

Timi: And then as we just said, pension accounts are also a type of investment account as well. They are called self-invested personal pensions or SIPS for short, and they have their own annual allowance of 60,000. If you pay into stocks and shares ISA, let's say you max out at 20,000 pounds and your investment grows, you get to keep that additional tax- free. You don't pay any capital gains tax or any tax on the income that you make through dividends and that sort of thing.

Kia: I mean, anytime I hear things are tax- free and we get money, to me it always-

Timi: We want to get money.

Kia: ... puts a smile on my face. It makes me happy if we can bring home some extra money, we don't have to give it to taxes. That's always a good thing, isn't it?

Timi: Yeah.

Kia: I remember when it comes to investing, I remember I started investing at 20 and I did what you just explained. I downloaded a platform and I signed up, and I remember at 20 I'm in university and I remember thinking, " Wow, this is all brand new." But it was so exciting to start to learn. I mean, I didn't start investing straight away. I did what you just mentioned. I researched on all of them and found the best one for me. But I think you breaking it down just shows that it isn't scary as people may seem. It is quite accessible, I think it is.

Timi: It's accessible and it's arguably the most accessible it's ever been because of the number of different platforms available. And I must say it's really great that you got started when you're 20. I got started investing when I was in my mid 20s and I wish I could have started sooner because a key component of investing is compounding. So the great thing about the fact that you started so early is that even starting with just small stems and investing regularly gives your investments a longer period of time to grow and compound over time. And compounding is basically where you get growth on top of the growth that you already have.

There's a exercise I like to do when I give talks. I'll say to people, " What would you much rather have 10 million pounds today or one pound coin that doubles every day for 30 days?" And people can tell that it's a trick question. So they'll go for the one pound coin and I'm like, " Yeah, you're quite right. If you take the 10 million pounds today, fair enough, you're a multimillionaire. But if you double one pound 30 times, then you're a billionaire because that's how compounding works with each additional day, your money is doubling and it can grow exponentially."

Kia: Compounding is the way. Let your money grow, put your money in, the growth can be on top of that growth. We love that. I think we've been talking about investing and I think it's also worthwhile mentioning that some employees are actually now offering workplace ISAs. So the benefits of these is that they're convenience. You can paint to them through salary deductions, that's through regular payments or through a lump sum, and the service charges on them are usually better than they would be if you set it up independently.

It's available for people through their employers, so it's also worth additional consideration for people to have a look at. Now, Timi, I want to talk about something. I want to talk about risk. So when we talk about investing, we know there's obviously higher risk attached to investing than let's say putting money in a savings account, but what kind of housekeeping should our listeners do to prepare for this additional risk?

Timi: Risk and understanding your attitude to risk is very, very important when it comes to investing because it must be said from the very beginning that there's no such thing as a 100% risk- free investment. You're always taking on a degree of risk when you set that money aside in the expectation of that future return. But the reason why we invest is because, and we can see at the moment with the rising cost of living is that cash tends to lose its value over time due to inflation.

And so we invest so that hopefully our cash can grow at a rate faster than inflation and we can see that that's happening in the UK at the moment. But as you said, there are some very important housekeeping things to do before we invest. Number one is to look at paying down high interest consumer debt. We know from the data that the average interest rate on an overdraft is about 40%.

We know the average interest rate on a credit card is about 20%, and to get a 20% return on an investment year in year out would make you one of the best investors in the world. It'd make you a Warren Buffet level investor. And so if you have high interest consumer debt, it's worth looking at either taking that to 0% or paying it down because that's money that you're losing.

The other thing to look at is, so we said investing is a long- term form of saving, but short-term savings are important too. And so the very first place to start is your emergency fund. So the way to think about your emergency fund is if you were to lose your primary source of income or an emergency was to happen, do you have enough money to get yourself through that without having to rely upon debt?

Saving an emergency fund before you invest means that should your investments fluctuate in value, which they will do from time to time, you have a pot of cash in cash that you can draw upon. The other thing to look at is things you'd like to do or have in the next year or two. As we said, investing’s for the long term, we tend to think of it in terms of years and decades rather than in weeks or months.

So if you're looking at the next one to two years and you have things that you'd like to do or have, this could be buying Christmas presents, going on holiday, saving for a house deposit will be a big financial milestone for a lot of people. Making sure that you're saving towards those goals as well is very important. Then anything over and above that can go into investments. That's money that you don't need today and that's going to work for you going forwards.

Kia: I think that's good points that you've made about understanding risk and preparing for it. And I think I'm very big on emergency funds because we never know what's going to happen. It's so key to have a pot of money saved there just in case things happen.

Timi: And I'm really pleased to say that I think the pandemic has actually changed a lot of our attitudes-

Kia: It has.

Timi: ... to risk as well. Earlier on in my career, the idea of having a pot of money set aside for seemingly no reason at all seemed very arbitrary to me. It's not something that I necessarily wanted to do, but I think the pandemic has shown a lot of us that you can lose your primary source of income and things can happen, your situation can change, particularly for younger savers. They're actually really thinking about it and doing it in a very sophisticated way. So even though we're saying it on this podcast, I speak to lots of people that are doing this already and I think it's great.

Kia: Timi, what advice would you give to our listeners who are deciding, " Yes, I want to start investing," but they're trying to figure out what is the right investment for them?

Timi: That's a really good question. I think there'll be lots of different things to look at. Knowing how long you want to invest for will be a really key thing. Like we were talking about risk, yes, you can invest into individual stocks, for example, but that's actually the riskiest way to own company shares, so you may want to look at funds for example. We know that there's a growing appetite for ethical investments, and so if you want to invest in a way that doesn't invest in arms or tobacco or that sort of thing, then that might be a investment that's right for you.

But also people with particular values like religious values, you may want to invest in like Shariah funds or Halal funds, that's another way that you can look at it. But I think the most important thing when it comes to investing and deciding what investment is correct for you is investing in something that you fundamentally understand.

So if you're investing into something because you've seen a hot stock tip on social media or your mate's doing it or you've seen something in the news, that's probably not the way that you want to go about investing. You want to have a sense of why you're investing into it, whether it aligns with your values for how long you're investing into it so that should the value of the investment come down as it sometimes happens, you're not panicking because you haven't made a decision copying someone else. You've actually done your own research into that investment.

Kia: I agree with you, and I think it's also worthwhile adding on to what you said that personal finance and investing is just that. It is personal.

Timi: Personal finance is personal.

Kia: Exactly. So what you might do versus what I might do versus what your mom might do are probably going to be three different things going on. So it's all about finding and deciding what's best for you and sticking to that. So to run off this episode then, Timi, I'm going to ask you the question that I always ask at the end of the episode. What are the three tips that you'd give to our listeners to help them get a little bit richer?

Timi: I think the first thing, and we touched upon this earlier on in the episode, is to try to stay away from high interest consumer debt. And if you have it, try to see if you can pay it down or get it to a lower interest rate. The second thing is to save up that emergency fund. The future is uncertain, but you'll know that if something comes up, you'll be able to put yourself through that. And then to set aside small amounts of money every month, invest regularly for the long- term and you should be financially better off at the end of that.

Kia: Timi, thank you so much. You always give such amazing gems and that was no different, so thank you so much for coming onto this episode. This has been great. So a couple of things to say about all this, please don't put money into high risk investments that you cannot afford to lose. I know it sounds obvious, but it's always worth keeping in mind. Once you're up and running, investment can be a great way to take more control over your finances and so can self- employment, which I'm going to be exploring next week.

But while you wait, be sure to follow and tell your mates about the podcast. Well, that's if you have time after you've sorted your investment portfolio, of course. Bye.

Kia: Hey, everyone, it's Kia. Do you ever feel like the classic nine- to- five office job working for someone else just isn't quite right for you? Well, there are lots of other options out there. Self- employment could be a really empowering option, and it's getting more and more accessible, but you do need to wear many hats as well as your main hustle. You have to be the HR department, finance, marketing, sales, and digital teams.

I'm chatting with Georgina Merckel about the opportunities self- employment has given her, as well as the financial stuff you need to keep in mind when you're working for yourself. Georgina is 27. She's the founder of TOPA, a small business and nonprofit consultancy. She's also won a Young Freelancer of the Year Award in 2022, so she's definitely the right person to be speaking to. So, Georgina, can you start by talking us through your self- employment journey? Because we want to know how that's looked like for you.

Georgina: So, I came out of university, I did a master's, and I just got an admin job working for somebody else, and I started that, and it was a couple of weeks before the pandemic actually, I decided to make some extra money online. I Googled, " How can you make more money online?" And virtual assistant came up, and I was like, " I can do that. I'm doing HR, admin." And I joined a freelancing platform, and so I just put myself online, got some clients, started doing the work, and then we went into lockdown, and I just went from being in the office to working from home, so I could do eight till four in my job and then four till eight in my self- employed stuff.

It really grew from there. So, by six months in, I decided to do part- time work, so I cut my hours down to three days a week and did my freelancing work two days a week, and the weekends and the evenings. And then eventually, about nine months after I started in March, I went fully self- employed, and my business just evolved. I moved away from admin into consulting and operations, and then it's just grown from there really.

Kia: So, Georgina, what are some of the things that you love when it comes to being self- employed?

Georgina: The freedom that self- employment gives you is out of this world. So, I pretty much work from my sofa with my dogs every day. I take random walks in the middle of the day. I get to choose who I work with and when. Last week, there was one day where I worked from 5: 00 PM to 11:00 PM. I did all- day cleaning. There's just so much you can do. I've worked with clients that just don't really vibe, and at some point you can just say, " This is not going to work for me." And then you can just move on and find clients that serve you better. And tomorrow I could be like, " I don't like the direction of my business, so I'm going to start marketing myself somewhere else."

But you can do everything all- in- one job, and that's the best bit. I think it's the right choice for me and for so many people out there, and we just don't get the exposure to being why you should be self- employed or why you can be self- employed because there's a whole world of self- employment and community and people who are literally targeting the same audiences. But we're all so different. I have so many friends who do similar things, but one client might not be for me or for my friend, but they'll vibe with someone else we know, and there's no competition. So, I just really love being in that freelancer community and really just setting my own life and my own plans, and there's no restrictions.

Kia: You're selling it to me, and I'm already there. It sounds amazing. It sounds great. I mean, having a sofa office, being able to do all that work when you want.

Georgina: Yeah. I mean, I call it the soft office.

Kia: Yeah.

Georgina: That's basically where I work all the time. It's not good for your back, though. I do have a desk. I do try and I do the whole standing, sitting desk situation, but most of the time I'm just sat on the sofa with the dogs with a blanket work from my laptop. I've worked in the car. I travel, and I'll just be sat on my laptop in a service station typing, drinking Starbucks, and filming myself for reels.

Kia: Sounds like a dream. Where do I sign up? You've already sold me. I want to sign on the dotted line now and join the self- employment route. Self- employment is such a big leap, especially the way that you did it. You did it a really smart way, having your nine to five and then your five to nine, as people call it, working on your side hustle effectively until it became your main hustle. But what was it that gave you that confidence to say, " I'm going to leave my skew nine to five and actually take the plunge and the leap into my side hustle (inaudible) "?

Georgina: It took me such a long time, and I could have done it a lot sooner if I'd had the confidence to do it, but it got to the point where I just couldn't juggle both, and I was reaching the point of burnout, and I was just working all the time. And at some point, I knew that had to change. So, it took a lot longer than I would've wanted it to. If I could go back in time now, maybe it would've left after six months. But what was great is I started building clients and my job, so I started matching my salary, and by the time I could match my take- home monthly, I decided that was probably the right time to leave because I wasn't going to take this big drop in income.

Kia: Of course.

Georgina: I was just going to go straight into the same salary, but on my terms, and then I could just take it from there and see what happens after that. But it took a lot of guts in the end really to get there because I didn't know anyone self- employed. I just did it. A lot of the people I'm around are all employed people with secure jobs, and they didn't know what to say either. I kept saying, " I think I'm going to leave my job." And they were like, " Whoa, you're making that decision? That's a bit scary, isn't it? You've got this job."

And by that time, I'd fallen out of love with it because I fell in love with working for myself. I just couldn't do both. So, at some point, I had to give, and I'm so glad I did. The pandemic definitely was the reason why that took off because everyone, all my clients, needed virtual support, didn't care whether you were in an office or at home, on your sofa wherever you were, but were just ready. And so it just really was all those things at the right place at the right time.

Kia: That's amazing that it's all just falling into place, and I mean, your journey is a testament to everything. So, that is amazing. Now we're going to move on to more the money side. So, the financial side of things. So, when it comes to self- employment, I've been self- employed, I am self- employed right now. And I myself know how finances can take you aback, and especially when you've come from something so stable as a nine to five to being self- employed, there are things that can change your finances and some things that may take you by surprise. So what, when it comes to the financial side of being self- employed, took you by surprise?

Georgina: I didn't have any kind of insight into what I needed to do. I had no plans, I didn't take any advice. I just went self- employed, and that included the financial aspects. So, I knew about tax; I knew I'd have to pay it a different way to how I'd been doing it in a payslip, but I just thought, " Well, that happens in January, and I'll work it out then." And then I did get an accountant, who I just didn't educate myself well enough on, the right person to work with and to get the right advice, and I never even asked how much he cost until I got the bill at the end. And he was like four times the price of my current accountant.

Kia: Oh my gosh.

Georgina: And I was shocked. I was shocked at how much tax I had to pay, and I didn't know I had to pay a year and a half, basically, of tax. You had to pay payments on account, and I didn't know about that, even though I think I did in the back of my head and I just hadn't thought about it, prepared. But then there's so much more. There's income protection and your pension. I paid into a pension when I had a job, but I never realized you had to do that as a self- employed person. I never thought about what happens if I get called for jury duty tomorrow or have an accident, or what if my business closes.

What am I going to do? And so I had not made any of those plans. Now I'm so grateful I have got those things in place, but I didn't read enough. It was like a year in, and suddenly I started to realize I had to learn this stuff quickly.

Kia: I think a lot of people will share the same story as you do. I know I definitely do. You kind of jump into self- employment, and it's great. You get to be your own boss, you get to do things that you want to do in your own time, and then the financial side comes, you're like, " Wow." Because I know for me, income protection was, again, something I didn't have. I wasn't fully aware of when I first started my journey. Also, having an emergency fund-

Georgina: Yes.

Kia: For your business was something that I hadn't factored in until I'd gotten to a point where I'm like, " I should really have a pot of money just sitting there in case I need to cover things in case things..." As you know, income comes and it ebbs and flows; some months are great, some other months are just lower. And those are things that I had to learn on the go, and it's only because I have an accountant and I have all of that.

But if you don't know, there's all things that you'd never know to consider until you're in that situation that's typically too late. So, Georgina, knowing what you know about your journey, what do you wish that you would've known or would've done differently/ again recommended to others who were about to embark on their self- employment journey?

Georgina: I think get really good advice. I mean, it's never too early to get an accountant. First of all, they know what they're doing. They are experts. Now I have an amazing small business accountant who works with people just like me. And so you get proper advice about your taxes, what you can claim, whether you should be a limited company or a sole trader, what you should be paying into. I didn't know that if you've got a limited company, they can pay your pension on your behalf, but if you're a sole trader, you pay yourself. So, there's a tax difference there.

And if you get that good advice and also get the fees upfront, so you know, on budget ahead of time, that will really help. I wish now if I could go back in time. I had a checklist of things to do from day one, things to do from six months in, and I'm now a member of IPSE, and they have a package where you get jury service cover and income protection.

There's some life assurance and contract dispute cover, and those things come together; you don't have to think about them separately. So, if you get the proper advice and you look at what your options are, clearly you can make those decisions well in advance and be prepared for them.

Kia: I completely agree with the advice that you've given, I think is so key. What would you say then to someone who's on the fence about becoming self- employed? Because it is a big jump. You and I have both done it, and I'm sure we can both agree that it is a big leap. It's one that I'm happy that I've done.

Georgina: Yeah.

Kia: However, I do understand it is a big change. So, what would you say to someone who is on the fence about that?

Georgina: I think if you're thinking about it, it's probably the right decision for you. If you're on the fence, start taking it seriously and start thinking about it. I would start doing both your paid job and the self- employment thing at the same time to build up that income because once... It's like a momentum thing; once you start getting clients or bringing in money, it carries on from there. So, it's really simple to keep doing it, but personally, I would do it. The freedom I get from being self- employed is just way above anything else in terms of any other benefits I could get. I wouldn't change it for the world. And I think if you're thinking about it, you're probably on the path already there.

Kia: I love that. I think, yeah, like you said, if it's rooted in your mind, it's probably something that you do want to do. So, Georgina, let's talk about pensions. Okay, so in episode three of A Little Ritual, we cover the importance of having a pension when you're in a workplace, but when you're self- employed, we know that workplace pensions don't actually apply here.

Just a little summary to our listeners. A pension is a pot that you contribute to that will essentially fund your lifestyle once you reach retirement age. There are many benefits to contributing to a pension, especially from a younger age, as you're able to benefit from government top- ups and certain tax exemptions. But a question I want to ask you, Georgina, is how can someone who's self- employed go about setting up a pension, and why is it so important to have one?

Georgina: It's important because at some point you're not going to want to work anymore, or at least the level that you're doing right now. So, you have to be able to pay for your life. So, you need to start doing that. And the earlier you do it, the better it is. About a year into my self- employed journey, I just set up a pension using an app and started paying two pound a week into it. And in my head, I was like, I've ticked the box of setting up the pension, and I'm going to come back to it in three months time and work out what I should be putting in there.

And that step for me was really helpful because I'd done the admin bit and I'd got over that hump. Then I started working out what actually I need to save between now and 50 or 60 whenever I want to step away from my business. What am I going to need to live on to make the same money I can make now? So, it's really important that you start thinking about it. The earlier, the better.

Kia: Even though you contributed two pounds a week, it's the action of starting it.

Georgina: Yeah.

Kia: That is what's going to trigger you to, at some point, sit down with it and say, " Actually," like you said, " how much do I need to have in there? What amount am I trying to get to?" And then work backwards to start actually putting money into there. So, we mentioned how it's important, but how can someone actually start actually saving into a pension? How did you do it, for example?

Georgina: So I literally Googled self- employed pensions, and there are loads of options out there. I just signed up with an app where I put my details in, you do the admin bit, and then you just set up a regular amount or a lump sum. It's up to you.

Kia: And I think that's so key. As somebody who's self- employed, being able to control how much you put in, being in control of that is what you need.

Georgina: Yes.

Kia: So, I completely agree with you on that. I want to run off the episode as we always do, Georgina, and I'm going to ask you. What are your three tips to help our listeners get a little bit richer?

Georgina: So, if you're thinking about self- employment, start now. Start earning money or building that momentum. It's hard work, but it will pay off in the long run because then the drop or the change will be less dramatic. Start the pension early, like day one. You can do it if you're employed, right? You can just set up a private pension.

There's nothing stopping you. And I think the third thing is look into what packages are available. Can you get a group insurance that'll cover multiple things? Because it's better for you in the long run. Work out what the best options are, but get started sooner rather than later. The earlier you start sacrificing that income, you'll be better off in the long run, and it'll all just flow.

Kia: Thank you so much, Georgina. You've shared so many amazing insights and gems for us on this episode.

Georgina: Thank you.

Kia: That has made self- employment not seem as daunting for anyone who wants to get into it. So, thank you so much for joining us. It's been great to hear Georgina talk about her experiences of self- employment. Next week, we're continuing the conversation about the different career journeys that are out there. Where we look at the freedom your finances can give you. Want to retire early, travel, work part- time? Take a listen to hear what might be possible. In the meantime, be sure to follow the podcast and tell your friends. Bye.

Kia: Hey, it's Kia. Throughout this series, we've been exploring different ways to save and grow your money. In this episode, I want to focus on what your money can actually get you.

Everything's changing. It used to be you'd work one job all your life and then retire, but these days there are so many different approaches to work and leisure. So today, I'm talking to Jenny Hazan, Director of Customer Value Management at Legal & General, about all the different choices out there, and the freedom our finances bring us to make these choices.

So, Jenny, there are many different approaches to work and finances out there. People are doing FIRE, they're taking sabbaticals, they're having portfolio careers. Can you talk me through a few of these different options?

Jenny: Yeah, totally, Kia.

So as you said, that distinction between working life and retirement used to be really clear. In fact, we worked at one organization, probably stayed in the same industry, maybe even at the same company for all of our career. And then on a set date, we suddenly became retired, and hopefully by that point the kids have moved out, you paid off the mortgage, and now was the time that you got to enjoy life. And I think people are looking for more financial freedom, flexibility and choice, and they're looking for different options.

Even just friends of mine actually, that have taken on new ways of doing this. So a portfolio career, for example, is where you may choose to be freelance, you may choose to work on a number of projects that are related or unrelated, working for companies and organizations that are interesting to you, that you're passionate about.

I also have a friend that's recently taken a sabbatical. So a sabbatical is a period of time where you will agree with your company to take unpaid, usually unpaid, time off, so maybe three months or six months, to focus on other passions or things like travel.

And then in addition to that, because of the pandemic and because of our ability to connect with the working world from lots of different places, lots of people are choosing to be digital nomads, work from wherever they are, abroad. And I think people are really looking for opportunities to do things a little bit differently. So there's definitely a push for people to think about, " Well, can I work for a certain period of time? And then only work if I need to work?"

And we mentioned FIRE, so FIRE stands for financial independence, retire early, and that's a movement that started off in the US and became popular probably from about 2010 onwards. And the main principles are about saving as much as you possibly can, investing as much as you can, living off less of the world's resources, but living well. But people that are taking on the FIRE movement, are tending to save a lot more than what most people can usually save. So up to 70% of their income. And they're usually aiming to get around about 25 times their living expenses, so that they can invest that money and live off the investment returns.

Now that might seem a little bit extreme and it does mean a lot of sacrifice, but I think what this shows is that people are looking for different options for themselves. I know for me personally, travel's really important, and so I want to be able to have a lifestyle that over time my working life will allow me to do that.

Kia: It is great hearing the different ways that people are actually taking charge of their finances and taking charge of how they work. It is so key, because this generation is very much thinking about the future and thinking about different ways, like you mentioned, our parents or our grandparents, their generation was like you said, one job, work till you retire, retire, then that's it. And now we're kind of saying, " No, I actually want a bit more freedom. What can I do to get more freedom?" So I want to ask you then, how can our finances help us to access these different choices that we've got?

Jenny: Yeah, so I think the principles, even if we talk about FIRE where we say, " Oh gosh, that's quite extreme," but the principles of it still stand strong, which is save as much as you can as early as you can. And the reason for that is because the earlier you save, the more time that money has to potentially grow.

And I think with so many different choices available to us now, it can be quite difficult to think ahead to the things that you might want to do. So actually setting out some goals, whether those be long- term, medium, or short- term, so that could be anything from having flexibility around your career, to saving up a deposit, to just being able to afford some nicer little luxuries in life, is really, really important.

But that takes budgeting, that takes saving, and also working towards a goal. I think sometimes it can be quite hard to think about starting these sorts of things, so one of the things about thinking about these goals, and actually starting to picture them in your head, is that you then have a much clearer motivation for doing the work that you need to do in order to plan for this.

Kia: I love goals so much. I'm glad you touched on it, because I think when you come to your finances and you come to planning, or saving, or anything to do with your finances, and you're almost saving aimlessly, it can feel like, " Why am I doing this?" But when you have a goal in mind, that can help. And I'm someone who's very visual, so I put my goals down on a vision board-

Jenny: Same.

Kia: ... so I know... (inaudible) . ... so I know at the foot of my bed or wherever I choose to place it at my house, I can wake up, and when you have those days like, " Oh, I just want to spend my money on... I just don't want to do this," you can kind of look at your vision board, and see, actually, I know I'm saving, because I want to get to this or I'm investing for this reason. And it helps to keep you on track, which is so good. And I'm so glad you mentioned goals, because it's just really, really important.

Now, you touched on it a little bit just now, but what can our listeners be doing with their finances now, that can give them as much freedom as possible in the future with their finances?

Jenny: Once you're clear about your goals and what those goals might look like, what sort of money you might need to afford those goals, the first thing is really to have a look at your finances. So what have you got coming in, what have you got going out. How much do you think that you could save. And I think a lot of people sort of struggle with the concept of, " I don't even know how much to start with," or, " I haven't got much flexibility."

So a general rule is the 50, 30, 20 rule. So 50% of your income would be spent on your essentials. So the needs. 30% on your wants or the fun stuff. And then 20% saving for the future. So you can start there, and it will be different for different people, but what you want to be thinking about is, " How do I build towards financial resilience?" So what that means is, " Can I weather the storm if something comes out of the blue?" all the way through to financial freedom, which is where you get more flexibility with your choices over the long- term.

So to start off with, make a budget, try and stick to it, and keep going, be consistent. If you have a month that's tough, don't give up, keep going.

The second thing is you need to think about emergency savings. So thinking about your living expenses and trying to put away three months to six months of savings that are in an easily accessible cash account, high interest if possible, that you can gain access to.

So these are for the things that might go wrong in life. You know, your MOT just came through and your car's failed, or that you unfortunately lose your job, or maybe the washing machine broke down. So these are things, emergencies, that you need money for. And if you haven't got three months saved away and you're thinking, " My God, how do I do that?" start with one month, start with one week, step- by- step.

The second thing that you can do once you've got an emergency savings budget is start to work on something that the industry sometimes like to call the FU fund. And that is really about having power and having choice. So this is the ability to walk away in situations where they're not serving you anymore. So that might be a job that you really hate, that's really impacting your mental health. It might be to walk away from a relationship. It might be to walk away from that awful flatmate that has not washed the dishes since the day they moved in. And over time you can continue to build that fund. So I think that's a really important one to think about.

After that, you can start thinking about those savings goals. So the short- term, the medium- term, and the long- term, and think about what sort of money you will need for those goals, and at what point in your life, because that has an impact on where you want to invest that money. So I think from a longer term perspective, obviously a pension is a great place to start thinking about long- term saving.

Pensions can be really tax- efficient, so if you wanted to put a hundred pounds into your pension, £80 of that would come from you, £20 would come from the government. And also, your employer will, if you've got a workplace pension, will also be making contributions as well. And I think it's worthwhile mentioning that some employers will put more money in, they'll match your contributions. And if you're not going to that level, you're actually leaving free money on the table, and no one wants to do that.

Kia: I love the fact that you mentioned that fund, the FU fund. I'm from a Caribbean household, so in my background we call that like the vexed fund.

Jenny: The vexed fund. Love it.

Kia: So when you're, like you said, when you're annoyed, just having that pot of money, but I think it is about making your finances or making your money a point to give you freedom. So like you said, freedom of choice, to decide to leave a job that you don't like, all the things that you mentioned, or freedom to cover your income if you happen to lose it for a period of time, or freedom to decide that I want to retire at 45, but I'm going to put my money aside to be able to do that. I think that's the main key here. We're just trying to get our money to work for us so it can give us more freedom.

We have been talking about this and it sounds great, but I want to ask you, are there any disadvantages to all of this? Is it maybe too much to focus on so much of this for the future? Are we putting too much emphasis and too much pressure on a lot of things at once for the future?

Jenny: I think that's a great question. I think it's all about balance, and that balance is going to be really different depending on your own financial circumstances and what you're trying to achieve. And the worst thing that you could do is stretch yourself so far that you end up running up credit card bills whilst you're cleverly saving away, but actually you might have something that's a high interest rate debt, and you don't want to do that. You want to pay that down.

So I think this is where it comes back to really sitting down with your finances, getting really clear about what it is that you really want. And I don't necessarily mean " things" in that sense. It will be, what experiences do you want? What sort of lifestyle would you like to have? How can you build up to that gradually? The plus point is if you're younger, then you've got a lot more time to do that if you start early.

And I think sometimes we worry about whether or not we're saving enough, whether or not we're on track, and there's lots of tools that can help you with that. But I think the important bit is not overstretching yourself, making sure that you remain balanced. And if you align your savings to your goals and to your ambitions, then it becomes a lot easier to say, " Do you know what? I probably could've made my lunch at home rather than buying it out. I probably don't need that other coffee. Do I need those new trainers?" and still give yourself a little bit of flexibility to reward yourself. We talked about the 30% of income on fun, because life should be fun.

Kia: Life should be fun. Absolutely. I agree with you. As someone who's in their 20s, I know how important it is to balance your finances. Obviously it is very important to make sure that your money's working for you and you're planning for the future, but also, I want to make memories. I want to have fun. So it is about striking that right balance where you're not, like I said, just spending tons of money on things. That maybe if you sat down you're probably just like, "I could've done without that." But equally, you're not saving everything or investing everything, so that you can't go out with your friends one weekend and have a good time, or you can't go on that trip that you wanted to go on. It's finding that right balance, like you said.

Jenny, I always end these episodes with the same questions, so I'm going to ask you, what are your three pieces of advice to help our listeners get a little bit richer?

Jenny: So we talk about money here, but actually it's about what it can allow you to do. So get really, really deep with yourself in terms of what you want your life to look like, what's important to you, what your values are, because developing your goals based around this will make it a lot easier to have the motivation to save.

The second one is save as much as you can as early as you can, because it really does make a big difference to the amount that you can save over time, and you get the awesome impact of compound growth as well.

And then the third thing is have fun with it. So I think sometimes we are at risk of not enjoying the saving that we do, because we see it as something to sacrifice. That we're sacrificing things in the now for things in the future. But actually, make it fun. Make it a game. Think about the rewards that you can offer yourself, and feel empowered. At the moment it can feel really stretched, particularly with rents increasing, mortgage rates increasing, the cost of just living is increasing, and so it can feel really difficult to think about saving. But ultimately, we can always start small, one step at a time.

Kia: Jenny, thank you so much. This has been just a great episode for people to kind of have some food for thought, to figure out what they want their money to be doing for them. And like we keep emphasizing, striking the right balance, and also enjoying life as well. That's the important bit. So thank you so much for coming on to the episode. This has been amazing.

Some great tips for planning for the future there, and that's really key. You just never know what might happen. Which is why, next week, I'm focusing on how unexpected life events, like illness, can impact your finances. It's important stuff. So if this is resonating with you, then follow the podcast and tell your friends. See you next week.

Kia: Hey, guys. It's Kia. We've been talking about how to hyper- focus your finances in order to get a little bit richer, but sometimes life just gets in the way. So this episode I'm talking about the impact physical and mental illnesses can have on our money.

Joining me is Koren Byrne, a PR manager at Legal & General. Koren joined Legal & General this year, but before this, she worked at our company who reviewed and rated financial products where her work involved promoting insurance protection.

Koren is 33 and one awful day last year, she suddenly went numb from the waist down. Following this, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and has spent the last year adjusting to some big changes in terms of her personal life, work life, and finances. Koren's done an excellent job adapting to all of this, and she's joining me today to talk through her story, how this has impacted her life, and what she'd do differently if she could go back.

So Koren, to kick things off, please could you talk me through the story of your diagnosis?

Koren: Yeah, I can. One day I was having brunch with the girls, time of my life, and the next day, literally overnight, I woke up and I was completely numb from the waist down-

Kia: Oh, wow.

Koren: ... both legs. It's like straightaway was like, " That's not quite normal," and it was like pins and needles. My feet felt dead.

So as soon as I could, I got hold of my GP and I was really, really lucky that I had access to private healthcare through work. I was really lucky I got diagnosed very, very quickly. It was a long, hard process. You find out what's wrong and it feels like a bit of a journey and you don't really know what's going on.

And then you get your diagnosis and you sit in the office and they go, " It's multiple sclerosis." He looked at me really odd because I was like, " Okay, fine," because I was expecting it.

Kia: Okay.

Koren: And then I got in the car and my mum was there luckily and she was like, "Are you okay?" I was like, "No."

Kia: No, no. I mean...

Koren: No, I'm not. Because that's where the journey really starts and that's when the reality of the situation because you're still kind of hoping that maybe I'm being dramatic. So that was kind of the start of all the changes was when I got that diagnosis and I realized quite quickly how much of an effect, not just feeling physically unwell, but the mental strain of having a diagnosis of an incurable disease.

Like I've been sick, but I've never been sick to be told that you're not going to get better from, like this is with you for life. So it was dealing with the implications of that is kind of what came next and was the fun part, so to speak. The challenging part, challenging.

Kia: The challenging part. So I can imagine that was a massive worry that you had to undertake.

But how did this impact you financially? Were there changes that you had to make to your finances?

Koren: Yeah. So it's one of those ones like you deal with the health. At this point, I'm still very much going through the motions of being numb from the waist down. It lasted about sort of I think in total I had the numbness and the pain like for six months, but it was that impact then that it had on work.

So I'd worked really hard throughout my 20s to get to the point that I was in my career. I'd gone from like an internship earning like no money, all the way through to earning, like I was comfortable. I had a comfortable salary. I was starting to look at whether or not I wanted to buy a property, like start putting savings away and all of that.

I just felt like I'd hit a brick wall and that whole perspective of just like I always felt like I was soaring and then, all of a sudden, I was like-

Kia: Oh, no, I can imagine.

Koren: ... coming back down to earth with like a big bang, right?

And financially, I had some savings, but I was like living my best life so I was enjoying the disposable income that I had. So I had some money saved. I had like the bog standard three months of salary, like monthly salary saved up.

But I very quickly realised I'm not well. I don't know how long I'm going to be unwell for. I don't know what recovery looks like. I'm very fortunate that I did get the function back in my lower body and I went into remission quite well, but I could have had really lasting effects and disability and at some points I was walking with a stick. That could have been something that I carried on and continued to do.

So when it came to work, I just didn't know what that looked like, whether I needed to take time off. I also had to have a real sit- down with myself and can I continue to do the job that I'm doing?

Because one of the things that you get with multiple sclerosis is fatigue, which comes with it brain fog, and it just meant that I was really suffering at work. I couldn't find words in meetings and things like that. So where I'd gone from, well, I mean I thought I was all right in my job before and, all of a sudden, I wasn't able to do the things that I could do before.

The disease was new to me so I didn't know whether this was a permanent feature or whether that was just how I was going to be functioning moving forward.

Luckily, it sort of eased and the brain fog and I still get fatigue, but it comes in waves. So I was worried that I wouldn't have an income from work, and I was worried that if I went on sick, if it was long- term, whether I could live off statutory sick pay or how far my sick pay would stretch from work.

But I was really lucky at the time that I worked for a really, really good company that made some adjustments for me that helped me work and keep the salary.

And I was also extremely lucky with work that as part of the workplace benefits, I had a critical illness cover, which is a type of insurance against things like cancer and multiple sclerosis is one of the critical illnesses that is covered. So I got a lump payment from them.

Kia: That's really good. Really useful, I'm sure.

Koren: Yeah, and I think what that did was that kind of financial worry and that fear of the unknown of what that future looked like, it gave me a really good buffer so that I could continue to work and continue to forge that career path once I felt better.

But in an ideal situation because I had to work because I didn't have anything else other than that workplace benefit, I didn't have income protection so that I could have something where I could take six months off work and realistically that's what I should have done, because I had the physical side of things and then the mental health side of things that came with the diagnosis, not just the fatigue, but also I was not in a great place mentally because my whole world had just been turned upside down.

So I had some things in place. I had an extremely good employer that sort of really helped, and the critical illness really helped. But realistically, I wish I'd had a bit more there to sort of help and support me, take the time that I needed to sort of recover and work out what my next steps were going to be as well.

Kia: So Koren, I just want to ask you, what were you doing for work before you had your diagnosis, and how was that impacted after you received your diagnosis?

Koren: So I just started working in financial services and I'd been with the company for four years- ish. And I was like getting to that point where I was starting to look at what the next opportunities were going to be. I was really, really career- minded and focused on sort of climbing that career ladder as well.

And then you get hit with that diagnosis and, all of a sudden, that five- year plan is like ripped up. At some points I thought that I'd have to leave my job completely, change career, do something part- time, do something easier just so that I could focus on my health, physical and mental health.

And when I went to work and they were really supportive and I was able to access the critical illness cover and sort of have that money and that backing, it actually gave me the confidence to keep going full steam ahead. So let's stick to the five- year plan that I had for my career.

I felt more financially secure because I thought if it all goes wrong when I do need to quit or I do need to go or I need to take a job that's less money, I kind of knew that I had a bit of like a financial buffer there that I wouldn't have had without the critical illness.

And I started looking for jobs and I think this is where my outlook changed a little bit. I'd sort of chased a salary and sort of gravitas and things like that with the jobs that I'd gone for before, quite normal things. But I wanted something that served with a bit more purpose and that resonated with me.

That's where I saw the job with Legal & General, PR manager. I was like, tick, that's what I do. It's in financial services, tick.

And then the part that I really liked was it was specifically working with protection insurance. And I felt so passionately through my experience and being able to access the cover that I had and also passionate about the fact that I could have had way more cover in place. I could have provided myself so much more support had I understood that those products were for me at that age in my 20s. It wasn't just life insurance and it's not just about like the worst, worst thing happening, but also supporting your lifestyle as you go along.

The role really resonated with me and I was like, I absolutely want to do something because I feel like I've got a bit of a purpose. I'm on a bit of a soapbox with this.

Kia: Well, I think that's amazing. I think, like you said, it's something that young people should know about. It isn't covered very often.

So off the back of that then, what took you by surprise? What's the thing that you don't realize until you're in this type of situation?

Koren: I never thought that it would happen to me. And it sounds silly because my mum's got MS, but it's not hereditary. So really, I didn't think it was going to happen to me, like-

Kia: Yeah, of course.

Koren: ... and you think that sickness and these kinds of things are for people that are like older than you, right? I was building my life. I wasn't expecting it to be shattered overnight. I'd gone through my 20s thinking I was invincible, having a great time with all my friends, socializing, climbing the career ladder, doing everything that you're meant to do during those years.

And I didn't think that I would get to like 30, 31 and that would be, potentially could be the end of that kind of climb. And I hadn't and I don't know many people that do, especially when I talk to my friends. They don't think about what they would do if they got unwell or they weren't well enough to work.

And it's not a comfortable thing to think about, the unexpected and planning for the worst. But me, personally, I wish I had given that more thought. I was lucky, but if it had happened at any other point, or I was working for a different employer, the outcome could have been really, really different for me and I could have been really, really stuck.

And having three months' salary saved up is great, but it doesn't stretch very far when you've got bills and rent and also just like life to pay for as well.

Kia: That's the thing. I think there's so many things to consider, like you've mentioned, that it's almost hard, as you said, to see yourself in that situation.

Koren: Yeah, you can't. Until you're in it, you can't.

But I think that's the challenge you have to do with yourself, right? I think you do have to take that time to take stock and just say, " Okay, carpet gets pulled out from underneath me. What is my plan? What do I have in place to protect the lifestyle that I have today?" And that accommodates and accounts for everything, not just financially, but like your mental health, your physical health. Like what do you have in place and what support systems do you have in place today that can support you if the worst happens?

So start building some good habits with like putting some money away and take stock of that. Don't just save the three months' salary and leave it-

Kia: Yes.

Koren: ... because, as well, I'd based it on three months' salary before I'd had like pay rises and things like that.

So my lifestyle had moved on, but my savings were sort of stuck. So I was like, " That's done. I've got this little pocket. I can carry on." And I never took stock, and I never did things to continue to protect the life and the lifestyle that I was building. And you do it in the hope that you'll never have to use it.

But I think if you can get these really good habits to think in those terms and while things are up, don't wait until like I did where you are in that crisis point, and then start thinking about these things because it is a little bit too late. So do it while things are good, and just like explore what products could help you protect your income and protect your lifestyle as well.

Kia: So for you, you're in your early 30s and when you're young, it's really hard, like you said, to see yourself in any situation and to think that that could happen to you. So how would you like to see people's mindsets change here? Because I know your current line of work lines up with this.

Koren: Most people are really, really comfortable with insuring your things. Like you get a phone, you have insurance. Obviously legal requirement to have insurance. We are so comfortable with insuring things, it's second nature.

But for some reason when it comes to ourselves, our body, our health, it's boring and we don't want to talk about it. I don't know whether or not, especially when you talk about like life insurance, obviously that's like the very worst and you don't want to talk about that because it feels morbid. But it's like what we were saying earlier about protecting the lifestyle that you're building and the life that you're building out for yourself.

So I'd like to see that change. I'd like to see more conversation about how we protect ourselves and our lives against the unexpected happening. And a lot of these products when you're younger are a bit cheaper as well because sort of the risks are lower. I mean, there'll always be like one person like me that's like, " It happened to me, pick me." But no, I just really want that mindset to change, that it's not too expensive, it's not too difficult to have these conversations, and we are worth protecting and our lives are worth protecting.

Kia: Like you said, that is very key. We insure our products, but ourselves, it's very important so I think that's a great point.

But I want to run off this episode, though, the way that I always do. So I'm going to ask you, what are three tips that you'd give to our listeners to help them get a little bit richer?

Koren: I think start habits, good financial habits early, even when you're not earning a huge amount, start making savings, putting things away, and planning for the unexpected. Not just like rainy day funds, but actually worst case scenario planning as well.

And also look into insuring yourself in keeping your lifestyle going and look into things like income protection and critical illness cover. And I was really lucky that I had some workplace benefits, but check, really do look. It's great to have pizzas every Friday, it's great to finish at four o'clock every Friday, but actually look at the more boring benefits.

Have a look at your pension, have a look at sort of what life insurance is involved and also if there are any other benefits that come with that. Because a lot of the time you'll have access to things like counselling, again, like private diagnostics and private GPs and things.

Have a look at like that boring paperwork pack that you get when you start a new job and you're really excited and just take stock of what you've got in place and what might be missing from that as well. So you're not just relying on the workplace benefits, but what can you do and what products can you access on a personal level as well.

So just be mindful of all of your financial products, I think, is key from early on, so you build those habits.

Kia: Early on, that habit. That's a key point.

Koren, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's been very Insightful when you've shared some amazing tips so thank you so much.

Whether you are in a similar position to Koren or not, I hope that this episode resonated with you. If it did, then please be sure to follow the podcast, leave us a review and tell others who you think would be interested.

Next week, I'll be looking at student loans, the different types, how they can affect your finances and if you should repay them. See you then.

Kia: It's  Kia,  this  is  A  Little  Bit  Richer.  And  today  I'm  taking  a  deep  dive  into  the  world  of  student  loans.  Student  loans  are  one  of  those  things  that it's  so  easy  to  just  take  a  passive  approach  to.  You  go  to  uni,  you  get  the  loan,  your  repayments  start,  and  you  more  or  less  forget  about  it.  But  this  podcast  is  all  about  taking  back  control of all  of  your  finances.  And  the  first  step  to  getting  that  control  is  to  understand  it.

With  me  today,  to  help  us  get  to  grips  with  all  this,  is  Abigail  Foster.  Abigail  is  a  chartered  accountant  and  she's  a  founder  of  Elent,  a  financial  education  hub  for  students,  employees,  and  parents.  As  part  of  this,  she  runs  workshops  all  about  student  loans,  so  I  knew  I  had  to  get  her  on  to  learn  more.

Abigail,  people  listening  to  this  can  have  all  sorts  of  different  student  loan  repayment  plans.  It's  changed  a  lot.  So  let's  begin.  Could  you  talk  me  through  all  the  different  plans?

Abigail: Okay.  Yes,  there's  been  many  different  plans.  We'll  talk  about  the  undergrad  modern  plans,  so  one,  two,  and  five.  So  one  was  if  you  went  to  university  pre- 2012,  I  think  it  was  post- 1998,  but  pre- 2012,  you  would've  been  paying  the  tuition  loan  at  about  3K,  very,  very  nice  amount  of  money,  I  wish  I'd  paid  that.

Then  you  had  plan  two,  which  came  in  from  2012.  So  any  students  that  went  to  university  from  2012  to  2023,  you  were  on  plan  two.  And  then  any  university  student  that  goes  to  university  from  this  year,  so  from  2023  onwards,  they  are  now  on  plan  five.

Kia: Wow.  Okay.  So  how  do  all  of  these  loans  work?  I  mean,  if  you  think  about  a  loan,  we  think  about  interest  rates,  right?  So  you  might  take  out  a  credit  card  at  a  certain  amount  of  interest  rate  and  you now what  you're  going  to  pay.  Is  that  the  same  when  it  comes  to  student  loans?

Abigail: The  interest  rates  on  all  three  plans  frustratingly  all  different.  Like  to  make  it  nice  and  complicated.  So  plan  one  is  either  RPI,  which  stands  for  Retail  Price  Index,  better  known  as  inflation;  or  the  Bank  of  England  base  rate  plus  1%.  So  often  what's  happened  with  plan  one  is  the  interest  rate  has  been  lower  because  it's  that  Bank  of  England  base  rate  plus  1%.

Then  for  plan  two,  they  had  the  interest  rate  set  at  RPI  plus  3%,  so  Retail  Price  Index  also  known  as  inflation  plus  3%.  So  when  inflation  got  crazy  high  last  year  and  we  saw  those  11. 9%  numbers  of  inflation,  we  saw  huge  interest  on  the  student  loans.

Plan  five,  they  decided  as  their  nicety  for  changing  the  plan,  was  they  basically  introduced  interest  and  cut  it  back  to  just  RPI, so  just  inflation.  So  there  is  a  common  misconception  that  the  loan  doesn't  increase  over  time,  but  that's  not  really  true  because  it  does,  it  does  increase  by  RPI.  But  they  then  assume  that  that  RPI  means  it's  just  increased  with  inflation  therefore  the  real  value  of  the  loan  hasn't  increased,  but  it  definitely  does  increase  over  time.

Kia: Okay.  That's  good  to  know  that.  So  we  need  to  have  a  look  and  see,  depending  on what  plan  you're  on,  that  depends  on  what  interest  rate you are  obviously  going  to  have  on  your  student  loan.  So  when  it  comes  to  repaying  then,  because  I  know  when  I  was  in  university  not  too  long  ago,  I  know  I've  still  got  my  baby  face,  not  too  long  ago,  but when I was  in  university  it  was  always  this  thing  where  I  had  friends  say, " I've  taken  out  X  amount,  now  I'm  going  to have to  pay  it  straight  away."  I've  graduated  and  it's  almost  like  the  next  day  after  graduation  you're  going  to have to  pay  it  back.  But  I  want  to  ask  you,  what  salary  do  you  normally  have  to  be  on  before  you  start  paying  off  your  student  loan?

Abigail: Okay,  with  the  student  loan,  again,  let's  go  through  one,  two,  and  five.  So  with  plan  one  you  have  to  be  earning  over £22, 015,  if  we're  getting  specific.  With  plan  two,  it's  27,295.  And  then  with  the  new  plan  five,  you  need  to  earn  more  than  25  grand  a  year.  So  this  is  your  yearly  salary.

So  let's  say  you are  on  25K,  then  you  wouldn't  pay  anything  back  on  this  new  plan  yet  until  you  earn  over  25K. So,  you  only  pay  back  9%  over  those  thresholds.

Something  to  be  careful  though  is  that  what  tends  to  happen  is  they'll  take  your  yearly  salary,  divide  it  by  12  and  then  look  at  your  monthly  payslip.  So  if  you  don't  always  earn  the  same  every  month,  you  might  be  overpaying  the  student loan.  And  that's  something  to  look  out  for  because  it's  worked  out  on  a  yearly  basis,  but  on  your  payslip  can  often  be  then  brought  back  to  that  monthly  amount.  So  yeah.

Kia: That  makes  sense. I think  it's  good  to  know  that.  I've  seen  people  online  have  decided  to  take  control  of their  student  loans  and  log  in  and  see  if  they're  overpaying  and  have  been  able  to  actually  make  those  claims  back.  But  I  just  want  to  kind  of  go  back  to  what  you  said.  So  when  you  earn  over  a  certain  threshold,  you  mentioned  it's  any  income  over  that. 

I  think  people  sometimes  get  confused  if  it's,  like you  said,  the  new  plan,  it's  when  you  earn  over £25, 000,  some  people  think  that  they're going to pay back 9%  of  everything,  but  it's  only  the  income  over,  right?

Abigail: It  is  only  the  income  over  the  threshold  across  all  the  plans.  So  if  you  are  earning  30K,  you  are  paying  9%,  on  that  plan  five,  you're  paying  9%  on  5K.  So  the  difference  between  your  30,000  salary  and  that  25K  threshold,  9%  on  that.  But  it  does  add  up.  Obviously  the  more  you  start  earning,  that  9%  is  quite  a  large  chunk,  which  is  why  we  commonly  call  it  a  university  tax  as  opposed  to  a  loan  because  you  pay  more  the  more  you  earn.

Kia: Yeah,  absolutely.  But  I  think  yeah,  that  was  good for you  to  explain  that  because  I  think  sometimes ...  I  know  I've  spoken  to  people  who  have  almost  avoided  taking  out,  especially  maintenance  loans,  and  that's  obviously  the  loan  when  you're  in  university  that  will  help  you  live.  And  I  used  that  because  I  moved  away  from  home.  And  have  avoided  taking  out  more  money  because  they're  like, " No,  it's  a  loan and I've got to pay it  back  and  I  don't  want  to  graduate  and  have  to  pay  it  all  back.  Let  me  just  live  within  my  means  and  maybe  make  it  harder  for  myself."

But  I  think,  yeah,  the  way  you  explained  it that  definitely  does  help.  We  mentioned  student  loan.  Now  that  operative  word  loan,  will  that  affect  people's  ability  in  the  future  when  it  comes  to  getting  a  mortgage  or  any  other  type  of  loan  having  a  student  loan  out?

Abigail: It  can  do,  so  especially  with  a  mortgage  because  there  is  a  rule  which  is  that  the  student  loan  doesn't  impact  your  credit  score,  which  then  commonly  misconstrued  as  therefore  it  doesn't  impact  your  mortgage.  That's  not  true.  So  it  doesn't  impact  your  credit  score  in  the  terms  it  doesn't  get ...  it's  not  information  that  filters  into  your  credit  rating  agencies,  which  then  provide  you  with  a  credit  score.

But  it  can  affect  how  much  mortgage  you  get.  Because  if  you  went  to  a  mortgage  provider  or  you  went  to  a  mortgage  advisor,  et  cetera  and  said, " Right,  this  is  my  income."  They  would  say  to you, " Okay,  what are  your  outgoings?"  And  they  will  look  at  your  outgoings,  one  being  your  student loan.  So  if  you  are  earning  over  that  threshold  and  you've  got  quite  a  large  chunk  coming  out  for  student  loans,  that  can  affect  how  much  you  can  borrow.  So  that's  where  it  can  affect  your  mortgage.

There  is  discussions  around  if  it  can  stop  you  getting  a  mortgage,  it  shouldn't  be able  to  stop  you,  it's  not  like  a  bad  note  on  your  credit  score.  It  is  just  something  to  be  aware  of  that it  can  reduce  how  much  mortgage  you  can  get.

Kia: I  think  that's  good  to  know.  So  it is  just  part  of  the  affordability  checks  that  the  mortgage  providers  do.  It  is  part  of  what are  you  paying,  what are  your  outgoings,  and  that's  just  one  of  them  if  you  don't  earn  over  that.  I  think  that's  good  to  know.

Now  there's  a  big  question,  and  one  I  know  a  lot  of  people  want  to  know,  should  we,  as  in  former  students  who've  now  graduated,  should  we  prioritize  paying  off  our  student  loans  or  should  we  just  carry  on  as  we  are?

Abigail: When  it  comes  to  paying  off  your  student  loan,  you  need  to  put  yourself  in  one  of  two  camps.  So  one,  if  you  are  not  earning  enough  that  you  are  noticing  it  on  your  payslip,  leave  it.  Just  leave  it  be.  Because  once  you  pay  off  that  student  loan,  if  you've  voluntarily  chosen  to,  you  can't  go  back  to the  Student  Loans  Company  and  get  that  money  back.  And  that  money  is  gone.  So  whilst  you  might  be  taking  down  the  loans,  but  you  will  end  up  with  less  money.  And  obviously  less  money  in  your  pocket,  which  you  could  have  used  for  better  things.

If you fall into  the  other  bracket  where  you  are  noticing  a  huge  amount  of  money  going  out  of  your  payslip  for  student  deductions,  then  it's  time  to  look  into  whether  you  should  be  paying  off  early.  Because  like  I  said at  the  beginning,  those  interest  rates  are  not  to  be  laughed  at.  They  are  really  hefty.  And  by  paying  off  large  chunks,  you  can  obviously  reduce  the  time  left  you've  got  to  pay.  Because  if  you  know  you're  going  to  be  paying it  off  in  full  obviously,  and  you  have  that  disposal  income  to  do  so.

Do  not  bankrupt  yourself  trying  to  pay  off  your  student loan.  That  is  really  important.  I  think  a  lot  of  people  say, " Oh,  well,  I'll  go  to  my  parents  and  ask  for  money  or  I'll  take  out  another  loan  to  pay  off  my  student  loan."  Please  don't  do  that  because  it's  a  really  flexible  loan  you're  not  going  to  find  anywhere  else.  And  that's  why  we  call  it,  like  I  say,  university  tax  as  opposed  to  a  loan.

But  yeah,  there's  two  camps  there  really,  and  it  very  much  depends  on  how  it  impacts  you  and  your  monthly  earnings.

Kia: That's  really  good  to  know  I  think.  Yeah,  so  it  all  depends  on  what  your  income  and  outgoings  look  like.  Because like  I  said  I  have  conversations  even  with  my  friends  who  say, " Oh,  I  need  to  pay  off my  student  loan."  But  I  think  it  is  a  very  personal  decision.  It  is  how  much  does  it  actually  impact  your  income  as  to  whether or not  you  should.

Abigail: It's  so  personal  because  also  obviously  some  parents  really  struggle  with  it  because  our  parents  didn't  have  this  or  particularly  my  parents  never  went  to  uni,  so  they  don't  quite  understand  how ...  they  don't  get  why  it's  such  a  big  amount  of  money,  but  I'm  not  worried  about  it.  So  the  older  generation  looked  at  our  generation  and  just  can't  imagine  why  we're  not  paying  this  off  quickly.  But  it's  because  it's  not  really  the  same.

Kia: Yeah,  yeah.  It's  not  how  they  view  maybe  mortgages  where  they  may  overpay  their  mortgages,  it's  different  like  you  said.

So  if  there's  people  who  have  children  now  or  are  thinking  about  having  kids  in  the  future,  what  could  they  be  doing  to  think  about  their  kids  going  to  university  before  they  hit  18  to  make  that  all  easier  when  it  comes  around?

Abigail: In  terms  of  funding  it,  I  suppose  setting  up  pots  for  them  for  the  future.  We  all  know  compound  interest  is  king  or  queen.  And  therefore  the  earlier  you  start  the  better  you  can  build  that  pot  up.  So  things  like  junior  ISAs  or  junior  bank  accounts  for  young  people  are  really  great  ways  to  just  put  little  bits  of  money  away  now.  And  hopefully  when  they  get  to  it  at  18  or  whenever  they  choose  to  go  to  university, it's a  nice  pot  for  them  there  that  can  help  them  with  maintenance  or  even  other  things  to  do  with  uni.

Kia: Exactly,  exactly.  So  Abigail,  before  we  go,  what  three  things  would  you  recommend  to  someone  that  they  can  do  to  help  them  get  a  little  bit  richer?

Abigail: So,  first  thing  would  definitely  be  check  that  you're  paying  the  right  amount  of  student  loan.  So  throughout  the  year,  checking  in  on  your  student  loan  website  and  that  you're  paying  the  right  amount.

Secondly,  would  be  looking  to  how  many  years  you've  got  left  to  pay,  because  there  might  be  a  possibility  that  you  might  not  pay  the  entire  student  loan  back.  So  with  plan  one,  that's  after  25  years,  it  gets  wiped.  With  plan  two,  after  30.  And  with  plan  five,  it's  actually  40  years.  But  if  you're  in  that  plan  two  area  and  you've  only  got  so  many  years  left,  you  might  not  need  to  repay  over  if  you  are  never  going  to  repay  in  full.

And  then  third  and  finally  would  be  education.  Please  keep  your  education  up  to  date  and  your  knowledge  because  the  plans  have  changed.  We  know  that,  we've  just  discussed  it  today.  But  a  lot  of  people  don't  realize  that  the  plan  has  changed.  And  this  reflects  everything  within  finance  and  money  right  now.  Everything's  changing.  So  yeah,  keep  your  education  up  to  date.

Kia: Thank  you  so  much.  This  has  been  a  very  insightful  episode.

It's  Black  Friday  next  week,  which  means  Christmas  will  be  here  before  we  know  it.  So  in  the  next  episode,  I  want  to  see  if  there's  such  a  thing  as  a  cost- effective  Christmas.  Until  then,  be  sure  to  hit  follow  and  leave  us  a  review.  Thank  you  for  listening.

Kia: Hey, it's Kia and welcome to A Little Bit Richer's very own Christmas special. I know, I know it's still November and I'm mentioning the C word, but part of the secret to a cost- effective Christmas or Hanukkah or just December in general is starting to plan early. It can be the most expensive month of the year. So how do we have a great December while still getting a little bit richer?

With me to unpack it all is Megan Micklewright. Megan was recently named Financial Influencer of the Year 2023, and is the founder of The Savvy Spender, a platform dedicated to financial positivity.

Megan, traditionally there's been a lot of pressure to spend at this time of the year, but we are starting to see people approach this differently. How's that?

Megan: I think a lot of people are approaching it differently, especially with the cost of living now, being more open with their boundaries, setting limits, thinking outside the box, getting creative with presents, making things homemade, doing more Secret Santa. Instead of buying everybody a gift in the family, they're passing it forward to charities instead. I was recently just having, well, say recently, earlier, about an hour ago having a conversation with someone about how my partner's family is so big that they don't end up doing presents because it will cost them an absolute fortune.

There's about 30, 40 of them and instead they just do a Secret Santa. So instead of one person buying 39 presents, it's one person buying one present and it's just so much easier on the pocket, isn't it, getting creative with the way you're doing presents instead of just that generic buy- in for everybody?

Kia: Absolutely. I think, especially with me and my friends, I think for the past five years we do our own separate Christmas celebrations, but we also do Secret Santa because I think when we were younger we used to think, " Okay, got to buy this person, that person." That list just gets longer and longer.

Megan: The list goes on.

Kia: And the price just keeps increasing. But now we decide, right, we're going to do the Secret Santa and you get whoever you get and we have a budget, which is very key because you never know who's earning what. So we just all agree a budget and we all stick to that budget and I think it makes things a lot easier and that way you're almost forced to think more about the gift that you're giving. Especially we've done it where it's only £ 10 pounds is the budget. So now I'm thinking about the person I've got, what would they love that I can buy for them that is within budget or I can make?

My friend made me a lovely notebook that I still use to this day. So I think it really does get you thinking whilst also not breaking the bank, which is really important.

So I want to ask you then, Megan, do you have any advice for those who are having a difficult conversations with friends and family and if those people may have different approaches to the holiday season?

Megan: I think that a conversation doesn't have to be difficult unless you make it difficult. If you go in and feel awkward about it, it's automatically going to be awkward. Tell people, " I've only got this much to spend," or, " I don't want to spend a lot this Christmas, I've got other priorities." At the end of the day, nobody can tell you what your priorities should or shouldn't be. So being clear about it, make sure everyone is on the same page and everyone can respect each other's decisions really.

I was speaking to somebody the other day about Christmas and just saying that even with family members that are very traditional in setting their ways, this is how we do things, it's good to open their mind up to new ways and it's not about saying this is the way it's done and that's the way we're doing it this year. Have a discussion, what do you want to do? What do I want to do? And come into compromises and that way you're all happy.

Kia: I love that. I think this has been a running theme on the podcast about having conversations. I think that's the big thing. We don't always talk about money, so sometimes it can feel as though it's hard to tell people, " You know what? I haven't got the money this year. Or actually, can we change what we do this year?" But I think, like you said, open, honest conversations and it's not as hard as you think it is. It's just as hard as you make it.

Megan: Absolutely.

Kia: I love that when you said that.

Megan: I think with the cost of living as well, the stigma around money conversations is slowly dying because people that never thought they'd be struggling are actually struggling and that's where the stigma's being lost because more and more people are talking about money, which is brilliant really because there should never be a stigma around it.

Kia: Exactly. I completely agree with you. Is there a way to have the best of both worlds? So when I say that, I mean is there a way to have a great Christmas while still sticking to your financial goals?

Megan: 100%, absolutely. You can always have the best of both worlds when it comes to spending money and Christmas. Make sure you've got them budgets in place and stick to them. Talk to yourself, write down in your notes, your notebook, wherever. What's important to you this Christmas? What do you want to tick off? What do you want to do?

Do you really need to go out to eat once a week? Make sure that you're doing what you want to do, ticking them off and your money's going to the important places. That way you are having the best of both worlds. And you can also make sure you're saving money when you are doing those things. Make sure you're using cash back. Make sure you're budgeting for them, book in advance, schedule what you're doing so you can get the most for your money.

Kia: I love that. And I especially love when you said reviewing how you're spending. So do you need to go out and eat every week? Because it's something that my friends and I have also been fully aware of because I think you find when you go to meet people, quite often you meet up with friends and then you're going out and before you know it you've spent £ 40 on your bill. Whereas if you're more aware of it because you want to stick to your financial goals, maybe you say, " You know what?

I want to meet up with you, but let's go for a coffee or let's go for a walk instead." And I think that's some of the changes that a lot of people are making. So it's like you don't have to compromise. You can still have, like you said, the good Christmas, but we can also still 100% stick to our financial goals. You don't have to compromise anything.

Megan: Definitely. And when you're going out, you don't always have to go to these fancy places. You can go to somewhere that's cheap, that's cheerful, it's good for everybody. And if people are drinking and you're not or they want to have a starter, main, dessert, just open up your separate tab. You don't have to split the bill.

And it doesn't have to be an awkward conversation about splitting the bill. Just say, " Look, I'm not drinking today or I'm only having a small starter so I'm going to open up my own tab." It doesn't have to be a big thing at the end of the meal where you're like, " Oh, someone's getting out the calculator." That bit that everybody dreads. Say at the beginning of the meal, " Right, I'm going to open up my own tab because I'm not drinking tonight." It doesn't have to be an awkward conversation. It can be really easy, really simple, and that's the best way to keep it.

Kia: Yep. I'm 100% behind you on that because I'm someone very much so sometimes we go out and I'm happy to split. Sometimes I'm not hungry and I'll tell my friends or whoever I'm with, " Guys, I'm just going to pay for my one thing because I'm only getting one thing." And I don't feel bad about having that conversation. At least people know now, okay, that's how we're going to split the bill. Kia's not a part of that. So whatever I get now, I split between whoever's agreed upon it and it makes things easier.

Megan: I went for a meal once and I don't drink and everybody was ordering cocktails and it was in a really nice restaurant. They were like £ 12 each. And someone ordered lobster, which of course is very expensive. And I was thinking, I'm not drinking. I had a really cheap main. I am not splitting this bill. And I just said, " I'm going to open up my own tab because I've had a really cheap main, I'm not drinking." It was like fine.

And I think as long as you keep it simple, don't beat around the bush with it. It's absolutely fine, but it's about the conversations you're having and the people you're around. You don't need to spend loads to have a good time.

Kia: Exactly. I love Christmas. It brings the spirit. You get to be with your loved ones.

Megan: That's it.

Kia: My favourite time of the year. Not lying. I love it.

Megan: Get out the games, that's what I love.

Kia: Yeah. I love the games and the food.

Megan: And the food.

Kia: All of that. I'm getting excited now. See, I'm getting ahead of myself. Okay, so let's talk about the environment. What is the environmental impact of all of this? How does pulling back on consumerism help?

Megan: It helps in so many different ways. The sustainability aspect of it, the amount of things that end up in landfill, the amount of things that end up just cluttering your own house without talking about the environmental impact. We all end up with so much stuff and we say, " We haven't used that," or, " Why did they buy me that?" I think we've all got a present where we're like, " What am I going to do with this?" And it's being more mindful and thoughtful about the things that you're buying people as well, like you mentioned.

If you've got them budgets, thinking about what does that person really want? And if we're more mindful about it, then we end up buying things that are actually going to be used, which has an impact on our wallets, on the environment, on other people's clutter and decluttering. So it has major impacts in so many different areas.

Kia: Absolutely. I think one thing that I also do is I ask people, " What is it that you actually want?" Because think of how many times, I'm sure you've had it, I definitely have had it, where you've received the gift and you're like, " I cannot stand this. What am I going to do with this?" The person didn't even think about what this gift is, and now you're probably thinking about regifting it or you never use it and it does just kind of clutter up. But I think when you do have that conversation with someone, I mean it's not spoiling it.

You can get people to write on a list. You can pick from that list, so it's still got an air of surprise to it, but then at least you're buying something that that person's going to use or value. Let's talk about gifting then. Does expensive always mean better or are there other approaches that people can take when it comes to gift giving?

Megan: Expensive doesn't always mean better. I guess it depends what you're buying, but there's so many alternatives out there now. There's never just one of one product. There's so many different jewelry brands, phone brands, that sort of thing. And there's dupes as well out there now. You can always get a cheaper alternative.

So expensive doesn't always mean better. It's different if someone's asked for a specific brand or something like that. But always make sure you're shopping around, never just take the first price you see because nine times out of 10 it's not the best. And making sure you're looking for discount codes and that sort of stuff, using cashback where possible because if you are making an expensive purchase, you can still get some money back that way.

Kia: I love that. Cashback, discount codes, all of those things. So, Megan, it's Black Friday this week and that's a time where some people may be thinking, " I'm going to get all of my Christmas presents on that day because so many deals coming out." So I want to ask you, is it actually a good deal? Should people spend their money and use Black Friday as an opportunity or should people maybe hold back a bit?

Megan: I don't think you should hold back, but I also don't think you should rely on it. You've got to remember that these days are put out there for people to spend. They're not there for people to save. They're there for people to spend and it is a good day to check deals, but purely to check deals and make sure you actually are getting a good deal because sometimes the prices are hiked up in the weeks upcoming so they can be pulled down on that day and actually everyone thinks they're getting a good deal, but it's not a good deal. So make sure you are shopping around, look and see if you are actually getting a good deal.

And also remember it's not a saving if you didn't need it anyway. You're actually just spending. So make sure you stick to your list. Don't just get pulled in to all of these good deals and offers that you're seeing. Get rid of the triggers if you need to, unsubscribe from them emails, unfollow people on Instagram if you need to. If you're struggling for money especially and you know that you're going to be triggered by Black Friday, get rid of any triggers. You don't need to spend if there's something that you don't need.

Kia: I absolutely agree with you. When it comes to Black Friday, I mean, I very rarely shop on those days anyway. Cyber Monday, those kind of days. But when it comes to Black Friday or the lead- up to it, I use price trackers. So certain websites will have a tracker, the big websites, and you can actually say, right, I'm looking at this product and it will track the price of it.

And you can also look at historical prices so you can see was it hiked up like you said the week before and now it's just come back to the original price or is there actually a saving if I wanted to buy it? If you get into that habit, you can definitely make sure you're getting the best price for anything you're buying, 100%. Finally, Megan, what three tips do you have for our listeners as they look ahead to Christmas to help them get a little bit richer.

Megan: I've mentioned it so many times, but the first one is definitely being open and honest. Having them conversations with people around you. Nobody's going to know unless you tell them. You've got to be open and honest. The second one will be never take that first price you see, shop around, make it a habit. Get into the habit of looking for cashback, looking for discount codes, having a look on even Facebook groups and things like that.

And the third one is get a little bit creative. Mine Nan, for example, she's got everything that she needs, absolutely everything that she needs. And I know that whatever I buy her, she's not going to use. So I get creative. I make her hampers. I buy her experiences instead. And that can be a lot more thoughtful for the person that you're buying for, but also be a bit easier on your pocket as well.

Kia: I love that. That is so thoughtful. Yeah, it makes you really think about what the person would value. Megan, thank you so much. This has been a great episode and really gotten us into the Christmas spirit.

Megan: I'm feeling Christmassy.

Kia: I'm feeling Christmassy. I'm ready. I'm ready for Christmas.

Megan: I'm ready to go Christmas shopping now.

Kia: I'm ready for everything. I'm ready to look at the food, everything.

Megan: I'm ready for the food.

Kia: We're getting too excited. We're getting too excited.

Megan: Let's not buy presents and let's just buy food.

Kia: Buy food. I'm with you on that, honestly. Thank you so much.

Megan: Thank you.

Kia: This has been a great episode.

Next week I'm returning to a topic we looked at earlier in the series, house buying. I want to focus specifically on the cost of buying your first home and how to save. And don't worry, the words avocado on toast are officially banned. I promise. But while you wait, you know the drill, hit follow and leave a review. Happy Christmas.

Kia Commodore:  Kia again, and this week I'm returning to one of A Little Bit Richer's most important topics, buying your first home. We've talked about the different schemes to help you get on the ladder, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still likely to be a lot of money.

So I'm talking to Hazel Johnston from Legal and General. Hazel was previously a mortgage advisor, and now helps other advisors grow their business, so she knows a thing or two about the cost of getting on a property ladder. So Hazel, let's kick things off about talking amounts. When we talk about saving up to buy a house, just how much are we talking here?

Hazel Johnston: It really depends where you're in the country. As a starter it varies so much, but I'd say it can be a lot of money. You can tell by my accent I'm based up in Edinburgh, Scotland. If I use Scotland as an example, we're looking about 34, 000 pounds roughly as an average compared to London, that jumps up quite a bit.

Kia Commodore: Poor London, that number is always a lot higher, isn't it?

Hazel Johnston: It is, 144,000 pounds on average. So, it can be really tough to get yourself into a position to have those savings for that deposit. And I think as we look at generations gone past, some of our friends were maybe buying properties when rates were a bit better and property prices were lower.

So we are in probably quite a different space to what we were a few years ago when looking at the same sort of properties.

Kia Commodore: Absolutely. I think I make it a point because I'm in the process of saving up for my first house.

Hazel Johnston: Congratulations.

Kia Commodore: Thank you. And I make it a point to have a look at different areas I want to live in. I mean London, as you mentioned, that number is very hefty, so not necessarily feasible for me, but any areas I do look at, I like to go on property search websites and have a look at the sold listings because then you know, it gives you a good understanding of what properties in that area have actually sold for.

Because I mean we can look at what's currently listed, but that doesn't mean it's going to sell for that. So that's kind of a little habit I've got myself into whilst I'm saving so I kind of have a good understanding of how much that's going to cost me, but it is a lot of money. But there are a lot of things that come into it.

So let's talk about mortgages. Maybe you can give us a quick explainer. So Hazel, what is a mortgage, and what are different options that are available to people?

Hazel Johnston: Yeah, so a mortgage essentially is just like a loan that a bank or building society will give you to be able to fund your purchase. Because I think we'd all love to have a couple of hundred thousand sat in the bank to buy these properties, but it's not the case for most of us. So yeah, banks, building societies will lend that money in the form of a loan.

There are lots of options though, so it's not just a case of if you're looking for that set property, you can adjust things on that mortgage to make it affordable for you, such as the length of time, as one example. So that's called your " mortgage term." So you could have a mortgage that's slightly shorter, that will mean that your monthly payments are higher, and you'll pay less back to that lender.

Or you can have lower monthly payments each month for that mortgage by extending it right out and taking it over longer periods of time. So there are different options depending on what your circumstances are and the budget that you want. The good thing with mortgages as well is you can get advice on them.

So, if that's something that you are looking at and you want to have a think about what's affordable for you, then absolutely you can speak to a mortgage advisor and they will be able to tailor your monthly payments to that budget as well.

Kia Commodore: I think it's always good to know that you can get advice. I think things like this, buying a property is such a big purchase that you want to make sure that you are going down the right path for you and you're picking the right options for your situation. So I want to ask you, when it comes to mortgages, how does that actually impact your deposit?

Hazel Johnston: Yeah, so your deposit can vary and that really depends on how much you're wanting to buy that property for. So obviously the more expense of the property depends on area, it's repair, actually the desirability of that home, you are going to probably need a bigger deposit than maybe a property that needs a bit of work or somewhere that's in an area slightly out of a main town.

The more you can afford to put in, then the smaller your mortgage is going to be. And that's always going to mean you can potentially obtain better interest rates in that lender and have a lower monthly payment. But that's not achievable for everyone. We've just seen how much deposits are on average.

So what I would say is sometimes that's where we do see people opting to look at Bank of Mum and Dad. I mean if you look at our Bank of Family research that was recently done, about 47% of buyers under 55 years old had to get support from their relatives to help them get on the ladder.

So it's a hard one. I mean it is hard to save up for that deposit, but what I would say is there are different options out there for people if needed.

Kia Commodore: Absolutely. I mean like I said, as someone who's currently saving it is very difficult, especially when you have this massive number that you're trying to reach, right? Whether it's 20,000, 30, whatever your number is, it's a massive number. So if you have that help from Bank of Mum and Dad or family members or even friends you want to help pitch in, that's great.

But what if you don't have access to that kind of family support? Do those people risk being locked out of the property market?

Hazel Johnston: I'm really interested you used the word " overwhelming," because it can be so easy to feel so overwhelmed looking at the amount, and I was a first- time buyer actually not that long ago, and I felt the exact same. I felt like I was saving forever to get that property. But what I'd say, it probably comes to three things. I'd say first of all, no, you're not locked out that market.

If we're talking about savings and actually being able to financially get there, I'd say if you're anything like me and you've got a pot of money saved up, you want to try and keep that there. And it's so easy to dip into that or be tempted to if your friends, I don't know, make a trip or something.

So I would always say try and save on the side. So have your property savings either in an ISA, or whichever way that you choose to do that. But then there are some apps and tools that can help make saving on the side for your little luxuries really easy. I know for example with my bank it will round up automatically the spare change to the nearest pound, and then that's my little fun fund.

Because that actually builds up-

Kia Commodore: It does.

Hazel Johnston: ... quite a bit over time.

Kia Commodore: It does.

Hazel Johnston: And so I would definitely say trying to utilize little tools and techniques like that can help without it then feeling like a chore, trying to get those savings up. Thirdly, and the more practical part really, if you really can't afford to save, or get to the savings that you want to are all the schemes that are available.

So Skipton Building Society have launched a new mortgage product to really help renters get on that property ladder. So it's a no- deposit mortgage, there's lots and lots of details which I'm sure mortgage advisors could help you with on that, but that's a great incentive in terms of that no deposit option.

And then you've also got Lifetime ISA, essentially getting free money. If you put a thousand pounds in, they'll give you a thousand pounds for every 4, 000 pounds you save. So it's 25% of your savings up to 4,000 pounds each year. And I just think people need to be more aware of that.

And then finally, as I said, I'm up in Scotland. Scotland's actually the only area that still have this, I was speaking to one of my friends who's a mortgage advisor the other day, is the lift scheme. That's something that people forget about and that's run by the Scottish government where they'll give you a percentage of funds towards that deposit in that home.

So it's not just about buyers and purchasers having to do all these different things to try and get into the industry. A lot of big industry names are also supporting new and innovative initiatives. So, one being generation home, that's a startup mortgage company, so there's lots and lots going on to try and make it easier for people to get on that property ladder.

So, that really can help people out and we just don't often realize all that's out there.

Kia Commodore: I love that, I think it's so important. I want to talk about then, we've mentioned obviously mortgages, you mentioned deposits, but there are lots of other fees associated too with the home- buying processes, I'm sure you know, having been through it yourself. So what else should people consider financially when it comes to buying a property that isn't just a deposit?

Hazel Johnston: Yeah, so you've got quite a few different fees to consider as part of the buying process. I would say as a kind of first port of call, standard ones like your solicitor fees, potential surveys, and anything maybe that you want to put aside if you want to do up that property. The only way I could afford mine was to buy a property that needed everything done and I had to then factor in, I need some funds to do that property up and make it liveable.

Another expense could be stamp duty, always worth checking because if you're a first time buyer you may not need to pay it, but for certain property values and if you're a home mover moving for a second, third, fourth time, then absolutely it's worth checking how much that stamp duty is. It's dictated by property price and can also be dictated, depends on if you've got secondary properties running in the background.

So it's always worth going on your government website depending on where you're based in the country. And you can type in the " property value" and it will tell you based on your situation how much stamp duty is payable. So I'd say they're your key ones and part of the buy- in process, you potentially need to consider lender product fees as well, depending on which mortgage products you're going to look at.

But again, as I said, mortgage advisors will keep you right. So definitely I speak to them, they'll keep you in the know. And sometimes you can add them onto the loan as well. So you've got options there. But then you've got to think about your more practical living costs as well.

So in terms of the property, you may find there are, if it's a leasehold property, you've got your ground rent service charges up in Scotland, that would be your factor fees. And we're talking about a lot of first time buyers here, but actually any home mover, if you are moving to a new area, it's really worth considering that your commute, nursery, childcare, all these other elements that may change in your life from that change of vocation as well.

And then I would just say if you're looking to save for a deposit to get to that point, it's really, really valuable to think about your finances now and what commitments you're getting into now such as car loans, Klarna's a biggie. It's again, another very big temptation out there-

Kia Commodore: I love the fact that you mentioned thinking about your finances now. Because I mean home buying often isn't, I decided to stay, I want to buy a house, I buy it tomorrow. It is a long- term process, but you've got to factor in, like you said, what commitments financially are you making now that could impact if you did take out car financing that could impact maybe your affordability or just anything that you're committing to that could maybe detract from you being able to get on a property ladder or make it harder for you once you move into that property.

Hazel Johnston: Yeah.

Kia Commodore: Like you said, I mean, who moves into a property and wants to sit on the floor for six months?

Hazel Johnston: No.

Kia Commodore: You want to make sure that you've got money-

Hazel Johnston: Exactly.

Kia Commodore: ... to be able to furnish it. So that's something that you've got to think about now as well as think about future finances as well.

Hazel Johnston: Yeah, and they'll impact your affordability with that lender too. So it's not even just about your own budget and being able to have your lifestyle and at home. If you go on lender websites, there's usually affordability calculators. So if you are thinking of a certain car finance or loan or whatever it may be, just check it, and you can do that on the lender website. It's really easy quite often.

Kia Commodore: I love that, that's really, really good point that you made there. So Hazel, I always end our episodes with the same question, which I'm going to ask you now. What three tips do you have to help people get a little bit richer?

Hazel Johnston: My first one would be talking about that comparison piece. So I don't think you'll ever feel richer if you're always competing to others. There'll be people that aspire to be where you're at and you'll probably also always be aspiring sometimes to where other people are. So I'd say that first one is just celebrate the small wins, even if you've managed to save a 10er, that's a 10er more than what you did yesterday, so celebrate those.

Secondly, I would say think about stabilizing your income. We do sometimes see people suffer illnesses or have to take time off work. COVID was a massive time for that. And what you don't want to have to do is to dip into those savings you've worked really, really hard for. Take out things like products, like income protection policies and it's a little bit of a safety net just in case you fall ill, you don't want to have to touch those savings that you've really worked hard for.

And then the third one is seek industry help. Take advice from experts, whether that's estate agents, mortgage advisors, solicitors, ask around because everybody's been there for the first time at some point if they want a property. And I would just say, always ask.

Kia Commodore: Hazel, thank you so much. That has been really, really good tips, especially celebrating the small wins. I think sometimes we always have a big goal, but you can celebrate the small milestones as we get there. So like you said, I'm going to celebrate the fact that I'm saving.

Hazel Johnston: Yes, please do.

Kia Commodore: That's what I'm going to take home, I'm going to let all my friends know I'm saving. This is the small goal I want to celebrate. And I think that'll keep you motivated as you keep going.

Hazel Johnston: Definitely it does.

Kia Commodore: So thank you so much-

Hazel Johnston: Thank you.

Kia Commodore: ... for coming on. This has been such a great episode. So thank you so much. Next week I'm taking a look at things women specifically need to know about money. If you're not a woman, don't hit " skip." There'll still be some highly tips for you too. I promise. Don't forget to follow and review the podcast and I'll catch you next week.

Kia: Hey, it's Kia. When it comes to finances, it can sometimes feel like a really negative space for women. Legal & General research last year found that the average pension pot of a woman at retirement was found to be less than half of that of a man at the same retirement stage. So there's a gender pension gap and a gender pay gap. There's the expense of childcare and a conversation to be had about flexible working.

There's a ton to talk about, but there is hope. I'm joined today by Emilie Bellet. Emilie is passionate about helping women improve their financial lives. She's the host of her podcast, The Wallet, and the founder of Vestpod, a community with a mission to help people, especially women, achieve financial independence. She's also wrote the book, You're Not Broke, You're Pre- Rich, which feels very on- brand for a little bit richer. So let's dive in. Emilie, what are some of the challenges that women face in the financial space?

Emilie: So if you think about our lives, women tend to live longer, so we should be the one taking extra care of retirement and planning ahead. But I feel there's a lot of hurdles and challenges along the way. So let's think about first the gender pay gap. Women are going to be paid less than men, then we tend to have a working life that's not as linear. So we may take breaks because we take care of our children, but it's also taking care of elderly parents, taking care of families, of communities.

Women are still the primary carers, so taking time off means less money being saved, less money being saved for the short term, but also for the long term. And also women tend to invest less than men. So because they're not taking this extra risk with their money, they're not necessarily getting this extra reward and building pension pots over the long term.

So there's this motherhood penalty, good daughter penalty. I hate having all these penalties on women's life, but it's really important to think about the long term. Another statistic is that 34% of women say that their financial situation keep them up at night. So I think because we didn't necessarily have these conversations about money, don't have the education, and this is men and women, we never received any financial education.

There's also a lack of confidence when it comes to finances. So even if women are really good savers, they're not actually always investing for the long- term and putting money into their retirement. When you look at pension pots, women will have pension pots that are half the size of men at retirement, and this comes from habits that will come from much earlier in their working lives.

Kia: I mean, as a woman myself, I can definitely attest to the things that you said, right? When it comes to being a woman, as you so lovingly put it, I mean there are penalties for ... You go through life, you want to have children, now you've got that penalty there. And I think it is so important as women, I think, I can't remember the exact number, but there is a stat out there that shows that women are better savers, they save more than men, but maybe they didn't take as much risk on their money. So they didn't put it in investments to help it grow. So I think there is that. But speaking about investment then, what is this investment gap? So can you describe what it is and what can be done about it?

Emilie: Yeah. So the investment gap is the difference between the number of women investing and the number of men actually investing money. And in the UK there's a £ 15 billion investing gap between men and women. So of course, that's going to make a huge difference in terms of wealth building because women, as you said, are great savers, but not all women are actually investing money.

So they're losing out because by making your money work for you and putting your money at work. In the stock market, you may expect higher return over the longer time. But of course, this comes with a notion of risk and risk is very difficult to comprehend. So when we look at the younger generation, you think about maybe the financial crisis in 2008, people may be worried about the stock market. There's a lot of misconception when we think about in culture and movies, we think about the Wolf of Wall Street.

So investing seems really scary and seems something that's not for everyone. So we sort of miss this education from a very young age about delayed ratification and budgeting and how to put your money at work to generate more return with your money and building wealth. And these are very important concepts. But if you don't start, then you may not have the confidence. You may feel a bit worried about asking for help, knowing where to go when you need financial advice.

There's also a financial advice gap in the UK to add to our gaps where most people are not going to have access to a financial advisor maybe because they don't have enough money. So there's a lot of responsibility and personal responsibility to get started managing your money and investing your money because this is going to be really important to build financial security and financial independence.

It's not about having more money, it's about having more money to be able to achieve your goals, to live the life you want. So I feel this investing piece is really where I want to help women to just get started on a very small scale. Now, there's a lot of platforms on the market where you can invest your spare change, you can start investing with £ 50 amounts. So it's getting started into this habit and trying to understand risk and see risk not necessarily as something that is bad but risk more as an opportunity. And when you invest in the stock market and if you have a pension, your money is invested.

So most people don't actually know that through your workplace pension, you're contributing towards your future, but your money is going to be invested in a collection of different companies. It's trying to understand a little bit more about how the stock market work, build up this confidence, understand risk, and feel a little bit more comfortable with this term of investing.

And it's the same as investing in your personal career, in your personal development where you do a lot of things for yourself to feel better, but you can do also some of these things with your finances. And it's starting from maybe learning a little bit more about money, investing a little bit. So starting on a very small scale actually works and it compounds over time, and that's one of the greatest lessons in investing.

Kia: Absolutely. I think like you mentioned, when it comes to investing, you mentioned the Wolf of Wall Street, when you think about investing, you think about men on the trading floor doing all this. It feels so far away from what you could do, especially as a woman. But I think alongside all the things that you mentioned there, it's about representation as well. So we've mentioned there are a lot of gaps, there are a lot of gaps for women out there, but as a woman, what can you do to be better prepared when it comes to your finances?

Emilie: Yeah. So I think it takes a little bit more planning and also thinking about what does money mean to you. When we think about money, finances, investing, that can be quite scary and overwhelming and you don't know where to start. So it is just trying to start with the basics. And often when we run our courses and boot camps, we try to have these conversations about money.

There's still such a big taboo around money because they have this lack of education and money being the thing where it's quite, I mean, I've always been taught that it's quite impolite to talk about money, that girls shouldn't talk about money. When you look at the statistics, girls actually receive 20% less pocket money than boys. And our money habits come from a very young age, from age three to 7 years old. So we sort of grow up with these beliefs around money.

So I think doing a little bit of work on your money mindset by having a conversation, trying to write your money story, maybe seeing a money coach also financial advisors can also help you. But really doing the work for yourself. And then it's organizing your finances, not being worried about checking your bank accounts. And I know that's quite scary for people who never look at their finances. But on the morning, try to check your bank account once a day, you'll feel empowered, you know exactly how much you have. And the same is going to go for debts, trying to understand how much debt do you have, how much savings do you have, and try to understand your basic numbers. So having a little spending plan, trying to check for the past months, or for the past three months, how have you been spending your money? So this is the first part.

And then thinking more broadly about wealth, we all should think about wealth. And of course, here we're talking financial wealth, but knowing a few numbers. So maybe trying to calculate your net worth, which is the sum of all your assets, minus the sum of your liabilities. If you're quite early in your working life, and if you have a lot of student debt, you will have a negative net worth.

But that's okay. It's just a matter of improving this number over time, knowing how much savings you have. So really knowing these numbers, also your credit score and writing them down and having maybe a little date with yourself on your money once a month.

And I'm sure you talk about that also with your friends and communities, but it's having this regular catch- up with money, I think is really helpful. And not judging yourself really, sort of detaching your self- worth from these numbers. They don't define you, the amount of money you earn, the amount of debt you have, they're not your personality. So trying to separate the two, I think is quite important.

But be very realistic about how much money you have, how much money you don't have, and what are your goals going forward.

Kia: I love that, especially when you mentioned about net worth. I remember I checked my net worth when I was in my first year of uni at 18, and I don't think I've seen a minor sign as big as that when I looked at my net worth. Thankfully it's gone up since then, but I find that quite funny. But I love the point where you mentioned actually talking to people. I think we have this culture in society where we don't talk, so things become taboo. And you never know if you see your colleagues are any more than you because we don't talk about it.

And I've made it a thing of my own friendship group that us as girls will come together and we'll just talk about money. Sometimes it's like, " We want to go out here, but girls, I haven't got the money this month. So let's be mindful of the budget." And having those open conversations make things easier. You can bring up, you know what, I'm going to go through this pay rise. It just makes that conversation a lot easier to have with people.

So I think it's definitely a good thing to try and incorporate for people. So Emilie, when it comes to the cost of kids specifically, because that can be a very big cost for a lot of parents. How can women and partners financially prepare for this?

Emilie: Yeah. So I think what I see very often, and I have three young kids. So for me, building a business, having kids, living the corporate world, that was a lot. And it takes a little bit of planning instead of reacting. So when women are pregnant, they usually think about, " Okay, what's going to happen to my salary? I will have to pay for childcare." Childcare in the UK is one of the most expensive in the world. And when we have conversation about childcare, women tend to compare their salary with the cost of childcare.

But actually, maybe they have a partner and they can share this cost with their partner. So I think it's trying to plan with your partner, cost of childcare, what do you want to do? Do you want to go back to work? How much is it going to cost us? And try to see this cost of childcare as an investment that will allow you if you want to to stay in the workforce, if you want to take some time off, can you also plan for this time off understanding that you will not earn any money?

So there's also no money that's going to be put into your savings and into your investment plan. And a conversation you can have with your partner is around pensions. So if you're taking time out of work and that you can have a few kids and then very easily you're five years out of the workforce or 10 years and you haven't saved any money. So making sure maybe your partner knows about that and is helping you and paying into your pension, or you can help your partner.

So having this thing where you work as a team and collectively to make sure you build up financial independence together for your household, but also independently, making sure you have your own money, you have your own pension pots because you never know what can happen. And also when you start having children is how do you talk about money in the family and how you start educating your children because as we know early education will have such a big impact later on in life.

So involving them in basic money decisions, and that can be budgeting, delayed gratification, saving for something you really like. Also, when it comes to raising kids, there's important conversations to have around flexible work and shared parental leave.

So it's important for both partners to maybe be able to take some time off to spend time with the kids to make sure the other partner can also stay the workforce. And the last thing is for parents, for young parents, when you have children, you should apply and potentially claim for child benefits.

So if you are out the workforce, you may not be entitled to actually receive a payment, but you can check that on HMRC, on the governance website. But actually, can you get your national insurance contribution to make sure you're not losing out in terms of your state pension?

Kia: I think that's really good. A lot of good valuable information there for people who are parents or becoming parents very soon. Emilie, I want to end with the same question that I ask every single week. What three tips can you give to help people get a little bit richer?

Emilie: So my first tip is about money mindset. Really try to understand what does money mean to you, what you can do for your finances, because we may have so many limiting beliefs around money. The second one is around investing. Start investing even on a small scale. And if you have a pension, check your pension, make sure you're contributing. If you don't have a pension yet, it's maybe the time to start figuring out how you can save for your older self and try to connect with your future self.

And my third tip is learn more about money, become more financially confident. You can start again on a very small scale with maybe books, video, courses, podcasts like this one, and slowly learn the tips, find some guidance, and become more financially confident.

Kia: Emilie, thank you so much. You have shared so much useful information for all of our listeners. And hopefully, this can be the starting point, close that gap that we see with women to become more empowered with their finances. So thank you so much for coming on. Next week I'll be chatting with digital nomad Claire Rhodes. Make sure to catch the episode to hear all about the exciting prospect of traveling while managing work in the UK. In the meantime, follow the podcast, leave us a review, and tell a mate. See you next week.

Kia: It is Kia, ever dream of changing your surroundings for something a bit sunnier? The rise of remote working, that dream is becoming more and more of a reality with lots more people embracing a digital nomad lifestyle. But what are the financial implications of that? How do you make a life- changing decision like this while sticking to your money goals?

To get into all of this, I'm chatting to Claire Rhodes, a freelance writer whose job meant that in 2021 she was able to make the decision to work from abroad. If the way this episode sounds is a little different to usual, it's because you might have guessed, Claire isn't with me today.

She's currently on her travels. Not that I'm jealous at all. Claire, thank you for coming on and taking the time out to speak to us. I want to ask you to kick things off. Tell me a little bit more about your story. How did you become and decide to become a digital nomad?

Claire: I don't think it's particularly dissimilar to what I imagine a lot of digital nomad stories are. I sort of went to university, went straight into an office job straight after that. I've worked as a content writer for B2B tech companies, so I worked at PR agencies in London, Content marketing agencies, that sort of thing.

And I've been in that space for about seven years now. But over COVID like a lot of people, we were stuck inside. We were obviously doing a lot of remote working from there anyway, and I think it just encouraged me and a lot of other people to sort of look at our work- life balance. I hadn't done a lot of traveling before, so that was something that I really wanted to go out and just do a bit more of do it whilst I was sort of young.

I find the money side of it does come after a little bit, but yeah, not sort of saving up and doing it for retirement and that sort of stuff. So I decided to go freelance in summer 2021, which is when I decided to give up my house that I was renting in Buckinghamshire, sell all my stuff, my car, everything and me and my partner just upped sticks and started traveling basically.

Kia: Claire, that sounds like an absolute dream as someone who loves to travel as well. I'm sure you've probably seen some incredible things. And this year I went travelling, one of my favourite places was Thailand and I think that was when I realised it's actually not as hard as people think. Obviously, there's time differences, there's things to work out but it's relatively easy to work abroad and I thought it was going to be harder than that.

Claire: Yeah, definitely. I completely agree. I think unless you are sort of surrounded by people who have done it or know someone who have done it and been successful at it, it seems like a very farfetched idea. But until you actually meet someone who's done it and they can sort of tell you a little bit about it and the fact that, yes, there's hurdles to go over but it's not. Like you said, it is not as hard as I think people make it out to be. It's just a very different way of life that you just have to adapt to, I think.

Kia: Absolutely. And it's good that we've got you here to hear about everything that you are doing. So what does life look like for you now? So what work do you do and what does a typical week look like for you?

Claire: I am living in Bali in Indonesia at the minute. We got a yearlong lease there, so that's where sort of home is I guess at the moment. I'm still doing the same work that I was doing when I was full- time employed, so I'm still doing B2B tech content writing  but I've obviously just got my own client base that I work with. I'm really lucky that I've got a lot of flexible clients. The time difference for Bali and UK is seven hours, sometimes eight hours when we have daylight savings, so it's a little bit brutal.

But everyone has been fantastic about having early morning calls in the UK and stuff so that I'm not joining calls at 1:00 AM and that kind of thing. But obviously when it needs to happen, that's absolutely fine. In terms of a typical week, it depends on if I'm actively traveling or I'm back in my place in Bali, but I try to only work three days’ worth of hours a week if you like.

I'm really trying to be kind of strict on that because one of the reasons I wanted to do obviously the whole digital nomad and remote working thing is to go out and see more of things. So it is very easy once you start getting your clients in and getting your money in and stuff to end up being stuck working Monday to Friday.

And I think I've just tried to be really, really strict with myself about not going back into that. Needless to say, sometimes you do have to do that. Sometimes where you are living or traveling to is more expensive and flights and accommodation and things add up and then you need to get more money in and that's fine. But one of the really nice things is if you need to have a month or two where you are living a bit cheaper, you need to sort of not have so many expenses and stuff.

You can fly somewhere that's going to lend that to you, so Bali's a great example of that. Flights yes, can be expensive depending on where you are, but the actual cost of living and the quality of living is a lot higher than in other places in the world.

Kia: Claire, you are really selling this to myself and everyone listening, three- day work week, get to see the sites. And like you said, if things need to kind of cut back on money, you'd make that move. You are really selling it. So let's go into that a bit more. What have some of your high points been then and what has surprised you on your journey into this digital nomad life?

Claire: I would say some of my high points is some of the weird and wonderful places I've travelled to. I've been to Mauritania and West Africa. I spent a month in Pakistan. Places that you wouldn't necessarily think to go on vacation, but because you're traveling it is obviously more of an interesting place to go to and are far less travelled if you like. And it was amazing.

But also the fact that on either side of that trip I was just able to kind of just lock in and get my work done. And then I could take that month off and it was fine and I knew everything was going to be fine. And all my clients knew I was going to be off for a bit and I could just come back and get straight back into it. But yeah, I think that's something that I would perhaps elaborate on, find your nice easy clients and make sure that you build a connection with them.

I think a lot of people are worried with remote work that it's all kind of email based and you don't really get to know anybody, especially as a freelancer I find that people are sometimes a little bit standoffish about that. And it's very different meeting someone in the office and doing that kind of thing, but just make sure you have kind of regular phone calls with people.

And just have that personal element as well so that you are both seen as human, you're not just business entities doing a business transaction. I think that's really, really important. In terms of things that surprised me, I would say from a, it's kind of a digital nomad point of view but also a self- employed point of view, taxes to be honest. When I first went freelance, I didn't earn as much in my first year. I didn't work for kind of six months.

I saved up a lot and just wanted to solely travel so I only worked for the latter six months of it, whereas my second year was very much traveling and working continuously. I did my tax bill a couple of months ago and was a little bit surprised by that. So I'm having the fun thing of making sure I've got enough money to pay for that in January.

So I think that's something to bear in mind whether you are digital nomading or kind of doing self- employed, that kind of thing, just do your homework on where you're working and your tax situation and who you need to pay for what would be I think a solid piece of advice that I wish I'd taken a little bit more notice of. But I've done that now, so hopefully the hard work's done for anyone else thinking about it and listening,

Kia: I think what you've mentioned there is really  good. You've managed to do some incredible travels, that sounds like a dream, the places you've been and what you've done. But when it comes to the finance element and you mentioned taxes, we've spoken about it before in this podcast, but that is something that really does almost stump people especially when you're self- employed. And it's great to see that obviously now you've got a bit more understanding.

But I think a lot of self- employed people, myself included, have had a similar journey where you go into it, everything’s great and then the tax bill comes and then you're having to kind of work that one out. And just a reminder for our listeners, make sure that you're checking the tax and employment regulations in the countries that you're planning to travel to, because each country has their own rules and restrictions on this and it's always good to double check and see what's going on with those countries.

It's also worth noting that with national insurance, you may have to pay this if you think that there's any chance you may be returning back to the UK in the future. When it comes to your financial goals, Claire, how does working abroad actually fit into those goals that you have?

Claire: I think it kind of fits in, so for example, I want to buy a house at some point. I'm 30, I’ve not quite got there yet. I'm not sort of at the stage in life where I want to get married and have kids and stuff, but yes, I would like to have a house in a few years. And I think sort of working abroad like I mentioned earlier, if you have a kind of financial goal like that for a house deposit for example in your mind and you want to do that, it’s very easy to live where it's a lot cheaper and you can save a lot more money.

Kia: I think everything that you shared in this episode has been really good at almost dispelling anyone, including myself, who might've had reservations about moving abroad, what am I going to do for money? Where am I going to live? It's going to cost so much. I think there is that perception, that idea that it will cost an arm and a leg when in reality you've shared of your journey that you're earning more, working less and paying less so you can reach some of your financial goals.

And Claire, you might've had me sold. I know that wasn't your aim, but you might've had me sold. Don't be surprised if the next episode I'm going to be on a sunny beach somewhere. Everyone don’t be surprised. What do you wish you'd known before you made this change?

Claire: I think there's three things that kind of jump out for me here. The first being just do your homework. So look at where you're going, look at where you want to travel, look at where you want to work and just make sure you have the right things in place to be able to kind of do that properly. So look at things like where you need to pay taxes, so that obviously depends on your clientele and where you're working. And look at things like visas as well.

Obviously if you're going somewhere where you're going to work online and you need a business visa for example, just make sure you've done the right sort of research to make sure that you are ticking all the boxes. The second thing I would say would be to have a safety net. Traveling is great but unexpected things do happen, so expect them to happen and just be prepared.

So if you need to have a last minute flight home or you need to change your travel plans and that kind of thing, just make sure you've got a bit of money set aside to do that. If you don’t, it’s going to get very overwhelming very quickly. You don't want to be putting things on your credit card and it's going to be a lot. So just make sure you've got that sort of capital set aside for that I think is really important.

And thirdly, I would say choose a place where you're going to have a bit of a community. There's some really, really great cities that I've been to that have got really, really, really good digital nomad communities in there and that's obviously why people go.

Off the top of my head, Canggu in Bali which is where I live is a great example of that. Other places as well, Lisbon, and there was also Tulum in Mexico is another place that I've been to that's got really good digital nomad communities. And I think it's really important to surround yourself with like- minded people, especially if you want to go down the digital nomad route.

So a really, really good example of that, there’s a pub where I live in Bali and on a Friday night everyone goes down there. But it's always really interesting because it's always people who are kind of starting their own businesses, looking for inspiration, where they want to travel to next. You'll probably find someone who is in the same field as you or someone who you would see yourself as having a client in that space and you can end up working together.

Everyone's really willing to help each other out and sort of provide that inspiration that you may need at that certain point. And if you are lucky enough that you are in the right place at the right time, you can give inspiration to other people who may need it at the time as well.

Kia: To run off this episode, I ask every guest the same question and I'm going to ask you, what three tips do you have in terms of being a digital nomad that will help our listeners get a little bit richer?

Claire: The first thing I would say is just do it. Just give it a go. Don't wait until retirement to do all your travel dreams and that kind of stuff. Give it a go. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. If it does, it’s going to be the best decision you ever make. Secondly, I would say look at what you can actually do feasibly, sort of working remotely.

You need to remember that you're traveling around, you’ve only got so much space in a backpack. So picking something that is laptop based is great. Obviously, I’m a content writer, I need a laptop. I don't need to have cameras and all that kind of stuff that might make it a bit harder perhaps to travel around for some people.

And thirdly, I would say save up a bit first. When I left to go traveling a few years ago, I sold everything in my house and downsized everything to a couple of boxes that are at my mom's garage now. So that money really helped me. It made me feel a lot more secure. Moving to another country and traveling around is quite a scary thing to do. So having that money set aside was really nice for me to know that I have it and if I need to dip into it, I can. And if I don’t, great, I can just continue saving.

Kia: Claire, thank you so much. I'm excited to see where you're off to next. Somewhere hot and sunny I'm sure compared to where I am, chilly UK. But thank you so much, it’s been a great episode.

Claire: Thanks a lot, Kia. It was nice to meet to you.

Kia: Great to hear about Claire's incredible lifestyle. The podcast has taken a break for a couple of weeks for Christmas. But then a little bit richer we'll be back in the new year, where we'll look at how to create good money habits for 2024. In the meantime, if you're enjoying the pod,  hit follow and tell your friends. See you in January.

Kia: Happy New Year. It's great to be back after the Christmas break. The new year always feels like a good time to have a fresh start and commit some new habits. And of course, this wouldn't be, A Little Bit Richer, if we didn't lean into that. So today I want to think about how we can make 2024 a great year for our money. I want to talk about how to give your finances a checkup.

So I knew I wanted to get Iain Russell on the pod. He's the head of performance marketing at Moneyhub, a tech company who have developed a money management app that's a great tool if you want to meet those financial goals. So let's get right into it.

Okay, so Iain, let's say someone's got a few hours that they're setting aside to go through their finances to get in good shape for this new year. What would you recommend that they focus on?

Iain: As boring as it sounds, I would say set a budget. Take your income, deduct all of your bills, regular monthly outgoings, rent payments, mortgage payments, utilities, and then you've got your next pot of money that you can split between other needs, wants and savings. A popular model for that is the 50, 30, 20 rule. 50% goes towards the needs, 30% towards the wants, 20% towards savings.

But you can be as flexible as you need to be because not everybody's the same. And then you can set smaller budgets within those categories to help you because it's really about just paying a bit more attention, taking control of what you earn, spend and save so that you're able to make better informed decisions going forward.

Kia: Love the fact that you said budgeting because I think, like you said, it does sound boring, but it is almost like the beginning place, you need to start. You need to know where you're out of your money, how much is coming in, how much is going out, how much are you setting aside for the things that you need. So like I said, I think that's a crucial step one. But now let's say people have checked over their finances, they know where they're at, what are some good money habits that people can try and get into in this new year?

Iain: So building an emergency fund. In Moneyhub, we have an Emergency Cash Builder as one of the tools, it just helps you start to set aside a bit of money for those unforeseen events that we know can come out of nowhere. Maybe they're in the back of the mind, " Oh, this could happen." Such as your car breaking down.

Kia: I've had that, I've had that one too many times. It catches you out of nowhere. So if you don't have that cushion to fall back on, that can be very costly.

Iain: Yeah, so it's very, very handy. It just gives you that peace of mind that you've been able to build that pot of money just to cover for these events. And then alongside that, looking at savings for the longer term, it's all about building that habit. It might be £ 10 a month, it could be £ 100 a month. It really doesn't matter. It's about getting that habit in place where you're being able to put a little bit of money aside for future term. And then managing debt would be the next one.

Assessing what debt you have, looking to manage and bring down those with higher interest rates like credit cards. It just starts building that sort of healthy financial position for yourself.

Kia: And setting aside a certain amount of money that you're going to spend throughout the month as well can help you.

Iain: Yeah, managing the debt and saving, building the emergency cash fund, being able to buid in that fund of money, and this is where the budget can come in. Again, you can set those smaller budgets on what you want to put towards eating out, or going to the cinema, kind of whatever you want, but you've got to make sure where you can that you're making that money work for you as well.

Kia: It's so crucial. I think, like you mentioned, there's so many great tips you just gave about managing your money, thinking about the future, reducing down any debt, but it's still important to have a good time and enjoy yourself because there is a direct link between money and mental health. And if you're always thinking about, " Okay, I need to do this with my money." And not put it towards yourself. We want to make sure you start the new year right. You've got to also think about yourself.

Iain: Yes.

Kia: That's why we have a fun fund and we don't go crazy, so we don't go crazy. We budget, we set aside that money.

Iain: That's it.

Kia: That's what we do. So how exactly do money apps help with maintaining these new money habits that we want people to pick up?

Iain: So money management apps like Moneyhub could do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. So for us it's about really bringing together all of your data in one place so you can connect all of your accounts, current accounts, credit cards, savings, mortgage, investments in one place. You then get a really true overview of your spending behaviour. Apps like ours, it'll bring it all together and it can really then help you drill down into that spending analysis and let you again, set budgets in specific areas.

Whether that's groceries or whether that is eating out or takeaways, and it's just giving you that true reflection to then let you go on and use all those tools knowing that you've got everything in one place. At the end of the day, what we want to try and do is to do that heavy lifting and give you that insight so you can make better informed decisions about what you then do next.

Kia: I think that's great. I think for some people, initially it could be quite daunting, to see everything in one place. Sometimes it is easy to have the blinkers on when you have a current accounts, all different things in different places. But when you have everything all in one place, it can be daunting to begin with.

But at least like you said, now you know where you are, exactly how much you have to play with, and you can be consistent with those good money habits. So let's stay on that topic of conversation. So let's talk about being in control of your finances. Why is it so important, as you mentioned already, to have things like financial safety nets for the future?

Iain: Yeah, so like I said before, it's those unexpected surprises. Even some of those more expensive times of the year, we've just all probably had one of those with Christmas. Sometimes if we're honest, your budgets can suddenly start to go a bit out of the window in the festive spirit.

Kia: You kind of just slightly go over when it's the festive time.

Iain: Yeah, it's a really tricky one, which is why new year is so popular for then getting back into gear and getting on top of finances. Having that discipline to have that money aside for these events means that you're better equipped to then catch up after those more expensive periods. You can compensate for that, but then also you are covered for those bigger things. Like we mentioned before, if your car breaks down or your boiler breaks, washing machine, fridge, freezer, these are things you can't do without.

Kia: Yeah.

Iain: It sucks when it happens, but being able to have that to call on is just so important.

Kia: I agree. As I mentioned earlier, I've had stuff with my car just randomly breaking down and having those financial safety nets means you don't have to dip into your everyday monthly income. You've got that pot of money that is there for these random things that happen. Like you said, things break down, things stop working. Maybe you need to travel from one place to another and you hadn't accounted for it.

That's just the money that you can know comfortably if something happens, my everyday monthly finances that I've accounted for are going to be completely fine because I'll touch on this one pot that is dedicated to things, unexpected expenses that crop up.

Iain: Yeah. As you say, yeah, it's the word, isn't it? We're saying they're surprises or they're unexpected.

Kia: Sometimes-

Iain: It's best to ...

Kia: ... not nice surprises, but yet surprises.

Iain: No. Exactly. You could be really budgeting everything to a real minute level, but we know that there's always those things that do become unexpected.

Kia: Absolutely. I agree. So Iain, this might be a new year, but some habits have to stay the same, and mine is definitely one of those. So I'm going to ask you the question that I have always been asking, I guess, right at the end of the episode. What are your top three tips that you'd give our listeners to help them get a little bit richer?

Iain: First top tip would be to maintain that financial discipline. Have a second thought when you're about to spend money about whether you definitely need it. If you're buying some new clothes, will you wear enough to justify the price? Would you potentially like to see that money sitting in a savings account or knocking off a bit of debt? Just taking that moment can really help get your mindset right when thinking about your finances. Second is to live below your means.

Again, being mindful of those spending habits, allowing yourself that buffer to be able to top up your emergency pot. Final tip, start early. No matter how much you're able to put away, whether that's £ 10 or £200, or what your target is, if it's clearing debt, putting more into your savings account or topping up your pension, the earlier you start the better. It just gives you that bit of financial security and freedom.

Kia: Iain, thank you so much for coming onto this episode. I feel like we're all rejuvenated and we're ready to tackle the new year with our finances and we're empowered and we're in control. So you've shared some amazing gems. Thank you so, so much.

Iain: Thank you very much.

Kia: Next week, I want to continue my episodes on property with a look at taking the second step on a house buying ladder. There's so much advice out there for first time buyers, but there's still a lot to think about when you're deciding whether to buy a property again. See you then, and in the meantime, follow the podcast, write a review, and tell a friend. It's three things that will really help other people get A Little Bit Richer too. Bye.

Kia: Hey, it is Kia. You may remember a few months back we were getting the grips of how to join a property market as a first time buyer. If you missed it, make sure you go back and listen. But this time I want to talk about next steps. You bought your first property a few years back and life has moved on. Maybe you're thinking of starting a family and want to buy a bigger home, or perhaps you're looking at a property as more of a financial investment.

Or maybe it's a bit of both. Whatever the case, there's a lot to talk about when it comes to moving up the property ladder. Also, it might be you're listening to this and thinking I'm not even close to buying my first house, and that's totally fine too. There's still lots of useful information in this episode if you're considering trying to become a homeowner. With me to talk through all of this is Liam Anstruther.

Liam is an independent mortgage advisor who set up The Mortgage Advice Club to help people with the home buying process. So Liam, let's get into the nitty- gritty of this. When is a good time to start thinking about the next step?

Liam: Yeah, fantastic. So I think with the next step, there's usually two key factors that will come into play for people. Usually they tend to be social or financial. So whether it be they've had a kid or they're potentially having a kid and they need to take that next step up to get more size, you want to start considering that probably before that happens so that you're ready for the impending arrivals.

Secondly, it'll be financial. So whether it be with the way that property values have been going, your property values went up, you want to take advantage. Or you've got that first step in stone in the market, but you've got new jobs, you've got more money in, you want to get that property, maybe a longer term property for you and your partner or yourself, then that's the time you want to say, right, and now's the time to start looking, see what we can afford, what can we get, and then look to see what properties you can get for that budget.

Kia: I think that's amazing. I think like you said, it's just figuring out where you are to know when you're going to take your next step. So I want to then ask you what are some of the challenges that people may face if they are actually looking to buy a bigger place?

Liam: I think the biggest one just now is affordability. I think with the way rates that are just now, as I said, we've got a whole generation who are used to, my generation who are used to seeing rates of 1, 2%, not much higher than that. They're now double that. So that's going to have a massive impact on the monthly, the payment. Electricity aint cheap. Your council tax is going to be higher.

So it's mainly about that monthly budget and you really need to have a think about, and obviously when we are speaking to our clients, we go through that with you anyway to make sure first step is this affordable for you, but it's about making sure that this step is worth it or it might mean that the next step might not be your forever home. It might be like a middle step. It doesn't necessarily mean you need to go from first house, first flat to forever home.

There might be that middle property that you're like, right, it's bigger, we can forward this now, but it's only a five- year plan and then planning to get that next step on it.

Kia: I love that. Because I think it is about being realistic. I think, I'm not a property owner yet, but what I can relate that to is cars.

Liam: Yeah.

Kia: So you have your first car and then when you come to move up, you're probably not going to jump straight to your dream car because that's probably going to be way out of budget. So you're going to be something slightly bigger. And I think when you put it in that perspective, it makes sense.

I think a lot of people either enter property ladder thinking they're going to live in their five bedroom mansion when they can't afford it, or they think I've come from maybe my one bed flat and I'm going to go straight into my mansion. Where it is stepping stones. Maybe it's figuring out, like you said, the in- between that is better suit for.

Liam: I think that's something that is changing back. When I bought my first property seven, eight years ago, you got a small flat, you got a bigger flat or medium house with garden and things, and then you've got your forever home. Though there was kind of historically all that three- step process.

Because of the way rates were, younger people having good wages, they tend to just skip from zero to a hundred really quick. Whereas you're starting to see it now because of the way rates are, property values have went up a lot over the last few years as well. You're starting to get that start at the cheaper, lower flat, then take that middle step then the forever home. So it's kind of naturally going back to that after the kind of low rate period that we've had over the last five years.

Kia: Yeah, amazing. So we got the three step in mind when it comes to getting up that property ladder and taking it in bits, moving up and getting the bigger property. So I want to then ask you, what about if you want second property because not everyone wants to move up and sell the one they've got. So what if you want a second property but you also want to keep the one that you have already? Is that a good idea or should maybe someone think about getting rid of their first one?

Liam: No, a lot of it depends on your financial circumstances personally. I mean what you'd be moving onto to there would be becoming a landlord. So you'd be moving into getting rental income, so an extra revenue source, but there's pros and cons to both sides. The deposits tend to be a little bit higher if you're buying a property to rent out or if you're staying in your current property you've got and you're buying another one.

You need to have that equity to be able to do that. So it can be great for some people. A lot of people, if they've got that entrepreneurial sense in them, they want to make money, they want to make money from property and they might buy more further than the line and make it a real revenue income.

It is possible to do something called let to buy, which is where you've let out your existing property and then you go buy another property. And obviously with that things to consider there's going to be additional stamp duty, things like that as well. But as you said, if you've got the finance there and you've got the understanding of it by speaking to somebody like ourselves, then it's definitely something that you can do.

Kia: So let's kind of delve into a bit more then on getting your second property if you did want to become a landlord, because people who are listening, we've spoken about getting your first property and there's all kinds of mortgage products on the market you can get. There's no deposits, there's 5% deposit, 10%. So is that the same if you are going to buy a second property that's an investment property or how does that differ?

Liam: It differs. You need to have more of a deposit when you're buying a buy- to- let at that point, if you've already got a property and you're buying one, so tends to be 20 to 25% as the minimum. There are certain circumstances where if it's for a family member, things like that, the deposit doesn't have to be that high, but generally nine times out of ten it will be a higher deposit.

One of the main differences is on what people will tend to do with buy- to- let properties as it will be on an interest only basis, because you want to make as much money as possible from that rental income. So your monthly payments will be substantially lower, because you making the profit from the rent's coming in.

But as I said, with the way rates are just now, a lot of landlords are probably going the other way rather than coming in. But again, some things that can be of benefit if you come in at this time and you're going to make more money as the rates come down.

Kia: I mean I think everyone loves when you're here making money, every ones ears prick up and they want to hear about that. But you did mention something there that I kind of want you to expand a little bit more. It's interest only mortgage. What is that for anyone who doesn't know?

Liam: Yeah. So when it's a second property, it's not the home you live in, the risk is lower because in the worst case scenario, if you had to sell that property, it's not the one you're living in. So there's less of an impact on you. (inaudible)  buy- to- let properties is it's not based on your income, it's based on the mortgage payment versus the rental income.

So it's a completely different thing and it tends to be a little bit probably easier on personal circumstances than what a residential home would be. So interest only is where you're just paying interest and you're not bringing down any of the mortgage balance. So obviously if it's your home you're living in, you don't want to be doing that.

You want to be bringing down your mortgage, get paid off as soon as possible, happy days. You enjoy your retirement with no mortgage. With a rental property, you want to get as much rental income out of that and at the end of the day when you get to the end of the term, you're ready to retire and you don't need it anymore, you can just sell it and you'll still have that, fingers crossed, your property values went up a little bit as well. So you kind of get that win- win from hope, a little bit of an equity boost and also the rental income as well.

Kia: Amazing. I think that's good to know for people. I think there's all kinds of mortgage products and it can be so confusing. But you breaking it down if you're going down that route for an investment property, that makes sense there. But let's kind of bring it back. So someone who wants to get second property in general, whether they want to get it for investment or just for them to have themselves, what would you recommend that people keep in mind when they are coming to actually make this decision?

Liam: So if they're moving up the property ladder, I think one of the biggest things, especially with the way rates are just now, a lot of people will be used to low rates. We've had low rates for about 10 years, so anyone who's going to take that next step now is going to get a little bit of a shock on how much higher the interest rates are.

If you're getting a bigger house, tends to be a bigger mortgage, which automatically mean a bigger monthly payment, more electricity, higher council tax. There's a lot of things you have to consider about your budget.

So the main thing people need consider is speak to someone like ourselves or even have a little look online on calculators and things to see is that property even just going to be affordable even with whether it's a change in income or you're needing that extra space, is it affordable? Because that's the most important thing, is making sure that property is affordable for you, whether it be.

And also if you're buying a bigger property, you're probably going to have higher stamp duties, another thing, higher solicitor costs, furnishing other rooms. There's a whole lot of other costs and things you need to think about. So it's that monthly budget you're thinking about as well as the upfront cost.

Kia: I love the fact that you mentioned affordability because I think it's great to be in a property ladder, number one. And if you can move up, and that's another great achievement, but it is making sure that you don't overextend yourself just for the sake of being able to say, " I've got two properties now instead of just one".

It is like you said, it's fracturing in and making sure have I figured out because like you said, now I'm getting two mortgages and not just one. Now there's double the expenses. Can I actually physically afford this?

Liam: And if it is an additional property you're going down. You've also got to think about have you got time and is it worth the hassle as well? Because being a landlord is a great idea. It's about do you have the time to manage that property as well? Because as much as you can get letting agents and things to do it, but that will bring down what you make in the end. So it's about thinking about do you have that time, patience, the stress levels to deal with that as well as the finances behind it.

Kia: Yeah, I completely agree with you. So Liam, I want to end the episode how I always end it, asking our quests the same question. What are your top three tips? Help our listeners get a little bit richer.

Liam: Yeah, sure. So not being biased, but the first one I would say is speak to a broker. Whether it's ourselves or somebody else, you compare your car insurance, you compare your home insurance, you compare everything. Your mortgage is the biggest loan you're ever going to have. Compare it when your product comes to an end. We've got all the lenders, we look across them all. We do this day in, day out, we know what we're looking for.

So to save as much money as possible, get that lowest rate, go with whoever the best lender is at that time. It will change probably in two years, five years time when you look again. But that's what we are here for. We want to save you as much money as possible, get your mortgage paid off as soon as possible so you can enjoy your retirement in your mortgage free home as soon as possible. Because that's the most important thing, that's the end goal.

 In regards to making money or saving money when you're selling and buying. When you're selling your home, it sounds daft and obvious, but if you're taking that next step in the property ladder just to cosmetic stuff when you're selling, if there's little jobs that are kind of outstanding or superficial things that need done to make it look that little bit better and that little bit more marketable, do it, pay that little bit extra because that little few hundred pounds might be a few thousand pounds in somebody else's eyes.

Because they don't have to do it, they don't have the hassle. So when you're coming to sell the property, just make it as beautiful and as marketable as possible so that you're getting the most for what you're selling it for. Because again, it's a knock on impact on hopefully getting you that little bit of a better property at the other end.

And last but not least, when you're looking to buy your property, your next one, whether it be an investment or whether it be your next step on the ladder, negotiate. Don't just, if you see a property there, use tools like Rightmove, how long has it been in the market for? The market is changing again, in the last two years it's been very, very hot.

Property's going in two, three weeks really, really quick. It's starting to change again and normalize. So don't just think that you have to go anywhere with your maximum offer, negotiate it, put a low offer in first. The worst thing that can happen is it gets rejected, and then you go in again and you go in again. So the three things there are obviously saving on your mortgage, using somebody like a broker to get the best monthly payment in your mortgage.

Next one, when you're selling your property, getting as much money as you can for your old one. So just making sure all those cosmetics touches are nice and tidy, photos and things. And I'm sure the estate agent will help you with this as well. And then when you're putting in offers, don't be shy, don't think you have to. Whatever the agent has told you or the person selling that's told you put an offer in. The worst thing that can happen is they say, no.

Kia: I love those. Those tips are really good, especially the one negotiate. I'm always saying this, make sure you negotiate. Don't always take the first price you're given, see what you can get. And I said, " Don't go with your maximum offer, so if you can get it lower". If you have to get there, then you get there eventually, but you go in lower and see what you can get. You'd be surprised. Liam, this has been a great episode.

Liam: Thank you.

Kia: You've shared so many (inaudible). Thank you so much for coming on. Next time I'm chatting all things credit. What is credit? What do we need to be careful of and can debt actually be a positive thing? We'll get into all of it, but while you wait, if A Little Bit Richer is helping you, then be sure to leave a review, hit follow and tell a friend. It all helps other people find us. See you next time.

Kia: So debt can be a really weird thing. People can be too credit avoidant or too far the other way and have a load of maxed out credit cards. There's a middle ground though, that's usually a happy medium. A little debt can even be a good thing sometimes. Andy Webb is with me and he's going to explain about how to use credit to get a little bit richer. Andy runs an award- winning blog called Be Clever With Your Cash and he's also a fellow podcaster. He Kia Commodores a weekly show, Cash Chats. So let's see what he's got to say. So Andy, we're going to start off with credit. So explain to us what exactly is credit?

Andy: Credit is basically when you borrow money for different parts of spending. The most common one that we know about obviously is the credit card. It's got the word credit in it, hasn't it?

Kia: It does.

Andy: Right. That's what people think of as credit a lot of the time. And when you use a credit card, the spending that you do on that card, you are basically borrowing that cash. That money is being paid for by the credit card company and you are going to have to then pay it back and it's not just credit cards. So there's also things like your overdraft, that's also credit loans, mortgages, which I'm sure we'll talk about again.

Even things like your mobile phone contract, sometimes they are things where you're going to have to apply for this credit. Doesn't necessarily come out of nowhere, got to apply for it, and then you're going to have to ultimately then pay it this money back.

Kia: I think when it comes to credit, like you said, there's a lot of things that people don't realize is credit. I think phone contracts is a big one that whenever I talk about it with people are like, that's not credit I'm paying for my phone line. But it is a line of credit that you're applying for. So I think it's always good to understand what that looks like. But whenever people talk about credit sometimes there can be a negative spin on it, right? But I want to switch it the other way. So why can it be a positive thing?

Andy: Yeah. Well, I mean I think it's important to sort of just touch on why people are a bit scared of it as well, aren't they? Why they think of it? Because this thing that comes into mind is that the debt that comes from it. Some people don't appreciate that it is when you borrow money, if you don't pay it back, it is a debt. And also the vast majority of the time, not always, the vast majority of the time, credit isn't free and you are paying for it.

So not only are you applying for the access to have this money that you can spend, but then there'll be extra added on most of the time. And so say you've got a hundred quid in your credit card with a 20% interest rate, then if you leave it as it is, you don't touch it, don't pay it off at all in that year, then it's going to cost you 20 quid.

And obviously the more you borrow, the higher the interest rates, the longer you borrow for, the more expensive it gets. So understandably, yeah, people do think, " I just don't want to get into that situation." But it does assume that you aren't paying it off.

And like you say, if you do pay off this debt a lot of time there are some benefits that can come with that. Credit cards, for example, there's a thing called section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, and this is a kind of a protection we get if you buy something that costs more than a hundred pounds but less than 30, 000 pounds and there are like Grey areas here, but broadly speaking, if you pay for that with a credit card rather than with a debit card, then if something was to go wrong, the credit card company is, this is a law, right?

They're legally liable to refund you if for some reason you can't get that money back from the people you originally bought it from.

So that's a really, really good extra that you only get with credit. Another one may well be little perks like rewards or cash back that you can get when you spend with a credit card. So it might not be a huge amount, maybe like 1% back, maybe less, maybe a little bit more every time you spend. But this is something which again, as long as you do clear that balance every single month, don't get charged that interest, can earn you a little bit extra cash.

So sometimes there are benefits for using something like a credit card over a debit card. What else? It could be that there's something that you can't normally afford, right? Mortgages. I know you talk about mortgages all the time. How many of us can just go out there and buy a house?

Kia: That's a massive amount, isn't it? That's a hefty amount.

Andy: Yeah. So you borrow for that one. Okay, yeah, you are going to pay an interest rate on that. You are going to pay more than the original value of the property, but otherwise you're never going to get on the property. So something that can mortgage, it's a credit, allows you to buy those expensive things. And even something that's not just as massive as a mortgage, something much less expensive but still pricey in the short term, a holiday, a TV. It's things which could be quite expensive.

You don't have enough money for right now, but you know will be able to afford it if you spread it out over time. And sometimes you can do that at 0%. There are ways, not overdrafts, not percent credit cards, generally for a limited amount of time, but it can help you buy those expensive things and spread that cost out. But I would say one of the most important things that comes with credit, and this is a bit weird in itself, if you have credit, it helps you get credit.

Kia: I know, right?

Andy: Yeah.

Kia: That concept almost feels a bit foreign that that is the case, but it is, yeah. If you have credit and the reason is obviously because you are borrowing money and if you pay it back in a timely manner, then you're showing lenders that you're actually a responsible borrower. So it's like " Okay, we're actually going to increase your limit because you've shown that the money we've given you thus far, you can borrow from us and pay back and we get our money back so we'll give you a bigger limit." But I think people don't really understand that concept and it is a bit foreign.

Andy: We'll talk about those risks and people worrying about debt. They think, " Oh no, I'm really scared of that. I don't want to be in that world." But if you don't enter any world of credit at all, when you do need to get credit, anything from that mobile phone contract through to a mortgage, you're going to find it harder to get it in the first place or you won't have access maybe to the cheaper deals, the better deals.

So it is a really weird thing whereby having credit, let's say a credit card that you use for your everyday spending, you don't get too carried away in but everyday spending and you manage it properly, you manage to pay it off, don't get charged the interest, you don't miss any payments, then that ultimately is a good thing and it'll help you longer term. It shouldn't be like this, but sadly it is.

Kia: But I love that breakdown. I feel like even you saying that it gives people the ability to spread the cost of payments. I think we're going to come into that in a second, but there's a lot of different things out there that allow you to spread the cost. But I think it is a good thing if you want to buy something, you say, " You know what?

Especially you've got 0% interest credit card overdraft," like you mentioned. Being able to spread that cost can alleviate some of that pressure that you've got financial stress and say, " Right, I'm going to plan it out for the next six months, plan out my finances and pay off this TV, this boiler I had to replace," or whatever it is. And now you've got kind of like that comfort to fall back on, that comfort cushion.

Okay, so we've covered how credit can be a very useful tool and there's a lot of positives to credit, but let's go to the other side. So what are some of the things that people need to be wary of when it comes to credit? Because we have the standard tools that we're used to, we have credit cards, we have loans, but then you get to the checkout of things and you see other tools there like buy now, pay later, which has made credit a lot more accessible. So what are the things that people should be wary of when it comes to credit?

Andy: Yeah, I think the big one, and this is, which I think a lot of young people get caught out on when we first get access to credit, we don't necessarily understand it. We think it's free money. We don't really understand the consequences of paying it back, don't necessarily understand the interest charges and then you quickly sort of start racking up the spending and you can't afford to pay off that spending and then you have to borrow more money to cover that the essentials, and meanwhile this debt's getting more expensive and it can spiral and it can get very problematic.

One in that how you just manage on a day- to- day basis, but two that knock on for the future and what it means for you later on, not just in your spending ability, but we talked about credit reports and you miss a payment or anything like that, then that's going to knock your credit report.

I know it's often easier said than done, but it's about making sure that you just spend within your means, you don't spend more than you can properly afford from your actual earnings or savings. Just because you've got a credit limit of two grand doesn't mean you've got two grand to spend. You've only got what's in your bank account that can pay off that credit card. So that's one of the really big things to be concerned about there.

I would say that there are times, particularly right now to where buy now pay later has made it really, really easy for this as well and people don't necessarily really appreciate the impact that has because it does work a little bit differently. It doesn't necessarily, and this changes and depends on who you borrow from or buy now pay later impact your credit score in the short term.

But that ability to have, oh, I've got one thing over three months, then you add another thing over three months and another thing it looks like small amounts but cumulatively all add together and that gets a lot as well. So it's about even if you think you can afford something, just making sure you're keeping track of it as well.

Kia: Absolutely. I agree with you. I think what I love to always highlight is that no credit is bad. Credit is at tool, it's never inherently bad and that includes buy now, pay later, credit cards overdrafts. It's often the misuse of that credit or like you said, not planning, not figuring out how you're going to pay it back is where things can sometimes go wrong. So as you said, it's just figuring out how are you going to do this, can you afford this?

And if not, maybe you should skip buy now, pay later if you haven't figured out how you're going to pay it back. Maybe you should not spend on that credit card right now if you haven't got a means to pay it back. So I agree with you.

We've touched on both sides of the spectrum. We touched on how credit can be a powerful tool, really positive, and we touched on the other side and how it could have some complications. So when people are preparing to take out credit, how do people find that sweet spot between healthy credit that's good and can benefit your credit score and gives you opportunities such as you mentioned buying a house, buying property and unhealthy that that could get out of control? So how do we find that sweet spot if you're going to take out credit?

Andy: Yeah, I think if you're starting off from scratch, right, you don't already have any sort of debts at all right now, then hopefully it's going to be an easier process for do as you said, just work out what you can afford. I think in terms of building up your credit report, building up your credit score, just do your everyday spending. It could be something like supermarket shopping or petrol, whatever.

It's things that you are going to spend money on anyway just to demonstrate that you can borrow money and then paying that off completely to avoid any interest charges. It's a great way just to start off with it. And just for that, just making sure there's maybe some money set aside in your normal current accounts that is there to pay off those things.

If you're already maybe in a bit of a situation where things are getting out of hand, it's just not to ignore it. I know we say this all the time around any kind of debts, but it's so, so vital that the earlier you take action, the easier it's going to be for you to kind of get out of that mess and hopefully the other end start doing things in a way that we're going to be sort positively build your finances and your credit report and your wealth and all these things.

And that is a big part there is if you are struggling and it's kind of starting to get out of hand is, look, we said not all credit costs money.

Some of it's free. And there are naught percent balance transfer credit cards, naught percent money transfer credit cards. These are really good products that if you apply for them and you're accepted for them, you can transfer that debt over. There's often a fee, not always often like a small fee that's within it that you'll be charged on the balance you move over, but then your balance, that debt that's moved over is not getting charged interest for a certain amount of time and that gives you that ability to pull it down.

You're not paying both what you owe and the interest, you're just paying what you owe. Hopefully you can clear that a lot faster. So that's a really good intermediate action.

 If things have gone even further and you kind of pass that and you're applying for these cards and you're getting rejected, I would say actually when you do apply for credit, often try and do what's called an eligibility search, first of all to give you an idea of how likely it is, it's never guaranteed, but how likely it's you'll get accepted rather than just go straight into a full application.

But if that's problematic, there are debt charities you can talk to, Step Change, Advice Bureau, National Debt Line, and they will help you work through how maybe you'll come out that other end.

Kia: Amazing. I think like you said, there's a lot of things to consider and credit should be seen as a tool, a useful tool, but we need to make sure that we're planning when it comes to using credit. So Andy, we've come to the point, I ask all of our guests what are the three tips that you can give our listeners to help them get a little bit richer?

Andy: So when it comes to credit, I think the first thing to do is to check your credit report and you can do this for free. It's not going to cost you any money. Actually three different credit reference agencies, which gets a bit complicated, but check that credit report. So just to have a look at it, check for any mistakes or anything there that doesn't look quite right and that's a great thing to do.

Then as we said, I would then get a credit card. I know somebody might find that a bit scary, but do that soft search, that eligibility search, see what you can get. Doesn't matter about any fancy features. You just want any old credit card and you put your normal spending on it and you clear it every single month. That's the second thing that's going to really help you improve that credit score and give you that access to things later on.

And finally, I would say what you want to be doing is making sure, this is so vital, that you do pay it every single month. And there was a little hack for that very simple one. It's just setting up a direct debit for the full amount.

Kia: I agree with that Yeah. Absolutely. It's the best way. If you feel like you're going to forget or you don't want to miss that payment, you set up a direct debit, it's all set up for you. So I agree.

Andy: Just make sure you've got enough money in the current account to cover it. S

Kia: Make sure. Yeah.

Andy: And those three things, they're really going to help you put in a really good position for helping you use credit and get better access to credit in a few years time.

Kia: Amazing. Andy, this has been so useful. Packed full of gems, as always. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of that input on this episode. Next week, I want to talk about what it means to share money when you're living with someone. We'll be coming up with ways to manage these conversations and agree what works for you both. In the meantime, don't just share your cash. Share this podcast too. Tell a mate, leave a review and help other people start getting a little bit richer. See you next week.

Kia: When I was a kid, I always got told it was good to share, but does that mean money too? A few episodes back, we were talking about financial abuse and Katie made a point saying that it's important not to be put off sharing finances with a romantic partner.

There are benefits to it, although it can still get messy if you don't have a solid plan in place. So, today, I'm talking to Amy James, a product manager at Legal & General. When she and her partner Dan decided that they'd like to settle down together, he revealed that he had built up some significant debts. Her story is about how they worked together to get to a stronger financial place. 

Amy, great to have you here, but can you give us a brief overview of your experiences sharing your finances with your partner, Dan? 

Amy: Dan and I met when I was 22, and I think we have hit every milestone along the way in terms of how we have shared our finances. Early days, I mean, very much like most couples, what was mine was mine, what's his was his. We lived very independently and dated like that for about a year.

And then, the role that I had took me to a point where we had to decide, do I want to move to the same city as him or was I going to stay? So, we decided that I would move in with him in his flat share with some of his other friends, so that was kind of our first step into, okay, so what does that mean for our shared finances? At that point, again, we just contributed to each other's little pot that goes into the shared household. 

And about a year after that, living in a shared housing, I was like, " Great, I'm saving loads of money here," so I'm either quite happy to do this, or actually we've done this for a year, do we want to live just the two of us? I think that was the pivotal first conversation that we had about what's next for both of us. And it was at that point that Dan said he had a little bit of debt, not that much, just a few thousand pounds. It was enough for me to worry about, but go, " Okay, that's fine." We're clearly in different financial positions.

So, at that point, we said, " Well, we don't want to stay living in a house share, but we'd like to get our own place. We're not ready to jump straight into buying somewhere together because we're not in the same financial position." So, the agreement was Dan would keep paying off his debt and he said he was in control of that, but I would keep saving towards a house that we would eventually buy, so we moved in together. 

About coming up to 12 months from having kind of moved in together and renting, I saw one of the apartments in our building come up for sale and I thought, " Well, we love where we live. We're close to town. It's a lovely building and I've probably got enough money to buy that with a mortgage." That was kind of the next conversation, so we said, " Yep, that's great." I don't think we revisited sort of how far Dan had come in his debt. We were probably still kind of fairly ignorant and living in happy bliss of each other's finances, but feeling like that comfortable arrangement was underneath of it, that Dan was paying off debt and I was saving. So, it was no surprise to him that I had enough savings to kind of put down that deposit. 

So, we put down the deposit. We said we'd buy the house. Dan was very adamant that it would be my house and he didn't want to go on the mortgage, that it was going to be for me. He couldn't contribute towards the deposit and he felt that was fair.

I was like, " All right, I don't really mind." I knew that I was buying it as our first home that we were going to live in together, so whether he was on it or not kind of didn't bother me, but I understood better when it came to that kind of first month that we were ready to make that exchange, everything's culminating, and Dan started to look quite worn out, quite stressed. It was very visible on him, and one day, I came back from a work trip and he just broke, and he confessed that actually he had a lot of debt.

He had been paying it off in the last year, but what might've been 3 or 5, 000 pounds of debt was not. It was more than his annual salary in debt. 

Kia: Wow. 

Amy: Yeah. So, yes, that was a critical milestone. 

Kia: Wow. So, that is quite a journey that you guys have been on, and I mean, that is quite a revelation. I can't even imagine how it is, you think one thing in terms of the amount of debt your partner's got, and then it ended up being something completely different. 

Amy: Yeah. Quite a shock. 

Kia: If we talk about that process then, what was the most important and helpful thing that helped you through going through getting your first property and just having a conversation? 

Amy: Well, it was once we were in that situation that, I mean, everything has to come to a head at that point, doesn't it? Because it was a question of, well, do I continue to buy this apartment? What if we can't afford it? I'd intended for us to live in it and share those expenses together. I was able to afford that mortgage by myself. That's the point. So, that was comfortable and we agreed that, okay, that's what we're going to do. I was going to continue to buy the house, but there was no more of me saying, " Okay, that's fine, Dan. You just carry on in the background paying off your debt." 

We had a much more visible shared sense of each other's finances, but also it forced us to sort of embrace this idea, an understanding that yes, we could have probably kept independent and that might've meant that I could afford things that he couldn't afford or I'll pay for you to go on holiday because I want us to go on holiday together, but actually, we knew we were doing this as the next step of our lives and our partnership together.

So, I looked at that as I want our finances to be shared together, so if we've got all of this money to pay off, I see it as you do, but I want to help you pay that off because what happens to you is going to impact what happens to me. 

But I think we found a mutual respect for one another and in the steps that we took, so we rented out one of the rooms in my new apartment and my brother came to live with us, so that helped pay towards it. Dan had to sell his car, but we lived in the City Centre, so it was one of those... That was a heartbreak, but we lived with it. Exactly. But those were big commitments. He also quit smoking and that was huge because that was a big expense. So, there were a couple of big lifestyle changes between us both that went towards paying off all of that debt. 

Kia: I think that's really good. Hearing your story I think is probably reminiscent to a lot of our listeners. It's such a mature conversation that you had and it's a difficult one, and we said it before on this podcast that money is such a taboo topic, and especially talking about it when you're not in a great place, people shy away from it. So, it makes sense why maybe he wasn't forthcoming initially, but you two putting together that plan and saying, " You know what? We're a partnership.

We're going to figure this out together." But equally, you not taking full ownership of his debt, which you could have stepped in like you said and said, " You know what? I'm just going to help you pay off." But coming together and helping him manage his money I think is really key. I want to bring it to your everyday now, so what does that arrangement look like now with your everyday finances, the two of you? 

Amy: Well, we fast- forward five, six years now actually. We jumped. We paid off all that debt. We set ourselves that goal that we said we'd pay it off in three years and we actually paid it off in just under three years because we were getting married, and we made a big kick at the end to say, " We want to start our lives. I'm married without all of this debt behind us." 

Now, we have our finances completely joint actually. Slowly, our finances just came together to the point where everything was going into that joint account, so there was no more sort of just splitting the bills. Both of our incomes went into it, and that's made a big difference for my everyday now because we now have a little girl. She's three.

And when it came to big decisions, again, like maternity leave, suddenly I'm the one who's at the financial detriment because it's my income that's taking a hit, not Dan's. And actually, well, there was no question that that was just a joint hit. It wasn't my hit to take on my own and my finances. Our household income took the burden of having to take the maternity leave, and then what does childcare look like? All of that comes from our family finances as opposed to his or mine. 

Kia: Well, I think it's great, like you said, your approach to finances now. I mean, congratulations on getting it all wiped off and having the wedding that you wanted, and being able to do that, I think that is such a testament in your journey and your story together with the partnership.

But I think even just seeing how you guys manage your money, and join your finances, you obviously have your strong money management that you've got yourself innately, and I think there's so many different things that people can do. Whenever I talk to people who were a couple, there are things like money dates. I'm not sure if you guys do money dates where you kind of get- 

Amy: We do. 

Kia: ... together and talk about it. 

Amy: Yeah. I don't know that I'm as glamorous as calling it a money date. 

Kia: But you come together and talk about finances. 

Amy: We absolutely do that, yeah. We sit down and we look through what are the bills and kind where we at, and we have that open conversation about what is our next goal? So, it was really obvious when it was paying off debt, but once we paid off debt, then it was, well, actually we're going to get married.

Do we want to save for a wedding? Do we want to save for a new house? We have. We've bought a new family home, rather than our little first apartment. What were each of those goals that we were saving towards? Or if we weren't saving sometimes at any point, it was just we were just building up a bit of a... What's the word? A comfort blanket. 

Kia: Yes, yes. Like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund that you can fall back on. 

Amy: A rainy day fund, exactly. 

Kia: Amazing. 

Amy: We both love our travel, so it would always be, " Okay, if we save that, then maybe actually now it's nice things that we can save for. We can save for nice holidays and go on nicer trips." 

Kia: That's really nice. I think it's so great to see that. You mentioned there that you guys have got an amazing child, a three- year- old. 

Amy: We do, yeah. 

Kia: Amazing. So, how did things change for you as a couple when you had your child? Because obviously that is massive change, and did you have to review, who paid for what, and what expenses were paid out of where? 

Amy: Yeah. I guess for us, because we had come together so jointly in our finances, we didn't have to change an awful lot when I got pregnant and when we had her. Actually, childcare just became another expense that had to come out, and obviously, we have to have that conversation and review.

We've got new outgoings and what does that look like? But it was nice to have that comfort that it wasn't me looking at it in terms of, " Okay, well, if I want to reduce my hours, what does that mean? And can I still afford to contribute my half of things?" Because actually it was recognized that it's just what do we have as a total sum, how much of that is now going towards looking after this little person, whether that's childcare or just new bills and new groceries that need purchased.

But in that way, it was kind of nice. It just became very casual and didn't feel stressful. 

Kia: Well, I think that's nice. Like I said, you got over the harder part initially, which is you tackling that debt, so then everything else almost feels more seamless because money isn't taboo anymore. We can talk about it. We can figure out our rhythm. So, I think that's great. That's amazing. 

Amy, it was great hearing how you guys manage your finances as even a couple, and I think it's also good to highlight just in general, anyone who isn't a couple and thinking about different ways that they can manage their finances, keeping separate accounts is another way that you can do it.

So, people have their joint accounts, but you might have your separate accounts that you put money into for different spending. Like you mentioned, sharing things in the joint account is all very useful. Household bills in there, things that you share, joint accounts. Also, dividing up what's mine, what's yours, and what's ours? Keeping that separate and having the main earner pay their partner and allowance. Another interesting way to do it, but it works for some couples. So, there are some general tips that you can do when it comes to managing your finances as a couple. 

But what I do want to kind of caveat here is to be wary of joint finances. If one of you has a poor credit history, because if you open up a joint bank account or take out a mortgage together, your credit rating could be affected as you'll be co- scored if you apply for credit, so it's a good idea for both of you to check your credit before combining your finances. Amy, I'm going to ask you the question that I ask all of our guests at the end of our episode. What are your three top tips for our listeners to help them get a little bit richer? 

Amy: I think my first is there is no one- size- fits- all. I started by telling you that I think we have hit every single one of the ways of sharing finances through our relationship, so we didn't jump straight into sharing finances on our third date. We built to that, and that has absolutely served us right, but I've got plenty of friends that also have wonderful marriages and partnerships but don't share their finances and still have those open conversations, which is my second point.

I think having open conversations, really transparent ones, both with yourselves but also with friends because I think money is really taboo and it shouldn't be. Why can't we talk about how much somebody else spends on something? Because actually, it might put in perspective, " You're spending what on those bills? Look at this one. You can save a little bit over here." And actually, that really helps and it helps you as a couple as well. 

My third, I think it's having a shared goal because that helps that foundation of shared respect for each other's finances. It's unlikely at any point in time, you're both going to match in your finances. One of you is going to earn a little more. One of you is going to earn a little less.

One of you might come into a bit of money. And I think having that respect for the fact that you're both working towards a shared goal at any point in time helps if there are challenges where somebody's going, " Do you know what? Actually, that budget feels really tight and I don't enjoy it. Now, I am feeling restricted in my spending, and that's encroaching on the life that I want." Actually, having that conversation to say, " All right. Well, that's fine.

Let's rein that back a little bit." So, I think at every point, if you have something that you're working jointly towards, that really helps cement any of the other two points where you're having those conversations and being open and honest with each other. 

Kia: Those are amazing, especially the tip about the shared goal. I love that. I think when it comes to any kind of saving as a couple but even as individuals, having a goal in mind will keep you on track, and it's even better if you have the same vision. 

Amy: Exactly. 

Kia: Thank you so much, Amy. You've shared some incredible gems on this podcast. Next time, I'm learning more about side hustles.

A second job can be a great way to bring some extra money in, but do you need to pay tax on that money? What other costs are involved? And will you still get time to actually have a break from work? I'm getting into all of this and more on A Little Bit Richer, but while you wait, hit follow, leave a review, and tell a mate. These are all the things that help get the pod up the chart and helping other people too. Bye. 

 

Kia: A side hustle can be a great way to get a little bit richer. More and more people are taking on extra work, whether it's selling old clothes online, renting out a spare room, or even starting a new business. But it's not something that you can just start doing without being aware of stuff like tax implications and other expenses you might have to pay. Also, you do still need a personal life.

You can't spend all your time working. So today I'm chatting to Tolu Frimpong, a financial coach whose work includes helping women break the payday to payday cycle, beat debt, start investing, and crucially earn more via side hustles. So let's do it. So Tolu, there's a lot of ways that we can earn extra money so can you give us some examples of short- term side hustles and then some longer term regular revenue streams?

Tolu: Oh, absolutely. There are so many different short- term and long- term side hustles that people can try. I think the first one I always like to mention is reselling because that's something all of us can do. We all have clutter in our homes that we can turn into cash. So what I would say is sell some of that used stuff online, make some money from those furniture, from the clothes, the shoes, the trainers, all these bits and bobs that you have at home that no longer are serving you and it's just taking up space in your house.

Sell those things online and make that extra money. It'll be extra income for you to do what you need to do. In addition to that, I would say things like survey sites, market research is also another great side hustle that you can try. Focus groups are also fantastic. User testing is also great. Companies will pay you to test their apps or test their websites and you can make extra money for those things.

And then those are short- term side hustles which anybody can start at any time with little to no experience. But then if you start talking about the more long- term side hustles, things that you can do may require a little bit more skills, a little bit more learning, but you can eventually monetize it. So those long- term side hustles that I like to mention are things like creating an online course.

So what is something that you're great at that you're an expert in that you can monetize, you can create a course about, help other people to learn how to do it and sell it online. E- commerce is also a great additional side hustle to start.

Again, it will take a little bit of learning what products to sell, et cetera, but once you get up and running, you can be able to monetize that side hustle. And then also things like renting out parking spaces at your house, renting out a spare room, that's something you could do. Even renting out your garage or your garden for events. There's just so many different things you can do to make that additional long- term income on the side.

Kia: I think it's so great to hear that there's things that we can do in the short term that I know I've got a whole bunch of clothes at home sitting there that I can just sell online and make some extra cash from. And in the longer term, things that you wouldn't consider. You mentioned renting a parking space out.

My dad does that. It's some extra money that you can bring in. We've all got things that we can look around and probably say, actually, I can make some extra money here. And I think the great thing about side hustles is that there's always scope for it to become the main hustle.

And we've heard from Georgina earlier on in the season who turned her side hustle into a main stream of income. So I think it's great to explore what you can do, how you can make extra money, and yeah, just add to your revenue streams. I love it. It just depends on how much you want to make, how time you want to put in, if you have to learn a new skill and how quickly and how convenient you want it to be in your day- to- day life. So what would be your advice for anyone who's looking to do that and what should they be focusing on when they're deciding what work they should be doing?

Tolu: Anyone wanting to build out additional income streams. So first of all, look at what skills they currently have. What skills do you currently have in your hand that you can monetize, and what additional skills do you want to learn to be able to monetize at a later date? And then I'd say learners are earners.

Yes, you want to have that skill, but how are you going to develop that skill? You want to commit to learning. So doing your research online, but not just researching and learning about that skill, but also practising and learning to develop that skill for yourself.

I think that's going to really help you to be able to generate that additional income on the side. I'd also say time is important as well. How you allocate and use your time in the evening and the weekend is going to really be the difference between you starting that side hustle and being successful at it.

Because that time that we have in the evening after work, that time how we currently utilizing it, how you utilize it is going to have an impact on your earning potential when it comes to that side hustle because the amount of time you give to it is the amount of time you're going to be able to monetise it eventually.

Kia: I think that's great. I think like you said, the time is a key one. When I think back to my days of learning how to illustrate, so I was like you, you know when you said you uploaded your first YouTube video, had no idea how to edit.

I decided to download Illustrator. I had no idea how to illustrate anything, but I dedicated my evenings after work at least two, three hours to learning that skill, which again, eventually gave me that earning potential. But it is just investing that time in. This is something that you want to do. So I love that point that you made.

Tolu: Yeah. Oh, I was going to also say to learn a skill in something that you're passionate about because what tends to happen is you start something and then you lose interest or it becomes too difficult and you quit before you actually see the fruits of your labour.

So I think when it comes to a side hustle, you want to make sure it's something that you're really interested in doing, something that you're passionate about and something that you're going to put in the work for because yeah, if you don't do it that way and you do something that someone else is doing or you just think, I'm going to jump on that wave because it seems like other people are making money doing it, you're going to burn out and you're going to quit before you actually see success.

Kia: I absolutely agree with you. So now you've given us some ways of actually adding in that extra stream of income. What can some of the benefits be? So obviously money is the main driver for most people, but is there other benefits that people can consider like maybe just they're trying something different. What else can come from picking up a side hustle?

Tolu: Absolutely. I think a great benefit of a side hustle, obviously beyond the monetary aspect is the personal development aspect of it as well, because you're stretching yourself beyond your current comfort zone and comfort levels because if I put myself in that example once upon a time, I used to hate public speaking. When it was someone's birthday, for example, and I had to give a speech, I will be so scared I'd run away and hide or I would say two words and then that would be it.

But doing this personal finance content creation, I've had to now speak in front of audiences of hundreds of people, something that I never thought I'd be able to do, but I've had to stretch myself. And it's so funny because when you stretch yourself you realize, wow, I'm capable of so much more than I thought I was capable of.

So I think that's one of the great things about starting a side hustle is that you don't realize where it will take you and how far it'll take you and opportunities that can present themselves from you starting that side hustle because you might just think, this is a little passion project that I've started today, but a year from now, if you continue to keep at it it will take you places that you never even imagined.

And also I think a great benefit of it is your network as well that it expands because I know since I've started doing the personal finance content, I've met so many incredible people like yourself, for example.

Kia: There we go, we have met.

Tolu: Exactly. Exactly, and I would've never met you had it not been for me starting this side hustle. So I think it's just amazing the opportunities that can come from you stepping out of your comfort zone, backing yourself, and yeah, it just expands you and stretches you and adds so much value to you as well.

That's another great thing is your skillset. It develops it beyond what you think you're currently capable of or what you are currently capable of. You develop new skills, you learn new skills, which is basically adding to your skill stack, which in addition to helping you generate income on the side, if you do want to continue your 09:00 to 5: 00 as well, that's going to help you with your employability when it comes to applying for promotions because you've got all the additional skillset that you've developed while building that side hustle.

Kia: Absolutely. I agree. I've listed on many a side hustle, many a skill I picked up on that CV. It is hefty.

Tolu: Yes.

Kia: I've committed time and I said, this is going on because I've put my time into this. And I think another one that I'd love to add on the back of what you said as well is it helps you to problem solve because you do reach barriers and hurdles. You're going to think, how do I do this? And even back again what you said of editing, when I first started learning how to edit. There were so many things I was like, how do I do that transition that you do there?

How do I get that up? But you come across that problem and you figure out how to get over it. So let's talk about the cost associated. What are the rules when it comes to paying taxes on the extra money that you've earned because we know when you're working a 09:00 to 5:00, you pay PAYE, you pay income tax. But if you're earning side hustle income are there taxes that we should be aware of and any other expenses that we should be aware of if you're trying to build that extra stream of income?

Tolu: So that's a great question, Kia, actually, when it comes to side hustle, I think there are so many tax implications that we need to be aware of so that we don't get ourselves into trouble when it comes to that extra money. So the extra money that you're making, first of all what I would say is when it comes to the first part of your question in terms of the costs associated with it, I think it's great to know that a lot of side hustles can be started with little to no money at all. So you don't need to think, oh my gosh, I need 10, 000 pounds to start a side hustle.

Actually, all you need is your phone and the internet and you can get started there and build it. But then when you do start making that money, HMRC are going to want their money too. So you are going to need to make sure you set money aside for taxes. So the first 1000 pounds that you earn, actually you don't have to pay tax on or declare, but beyond that, you are going to need to start paying income tax.

So what you want to do is have separate account for your business expenses from your personal income because the danger there is that you just start spending that business money and mixing it with your personal money and then when it comes to that tax time of the year, you're in trouble because you don't have the tax money set aside.

So I would say have a separate savings account or separate bank account for the business income and expenses because you are going to need to pay tax. When it comes to taxes there's income tax that you'll need to pay, national insurance contribution if you are paying yourself as an employee within that business. Also, you want to consider the structure for that side hustle as well actually.

Do you want to register as a sole trader or do you want to set up a limited company because that would determine how you need to pay your taxes for that business so when you are paying yourself as a sole trader, you want to make sure you're setting that money aside for your self- assessment that you're going to need to pay.

And if you are a limited company, you're going to need to register as well on company's house and set the business up that way. So there is quite a lot that you want to make sure you look into and research when it comes to the side hustle to make sure you don't get yourself into financial trouble later on.

Kia: Yeah, I agree with you. I think earning extra money is great, but like you said, it is just figuring out how am I going to register? How much money am I making and do I need to declare a certain amount? And especially it's good to also note that if you are a limited company, things like the VAT, depending on how much money, how successful your side hustle may be, we hope that you get to the point that you will have to be VAT registered, you earn over like 85, 000 pounds per tax year, then you are going to have to declare that.

But again, that is another thing that you'd have to research because we want you to earn your extra money, get your money up. This is a great time. But also, like you said, make sure you're researching and understanding what that looks like. But overall, I think we've said that side hustles are great, so there's a lot of ways that people can increase their income.

But I want to end the episode as I do with asking every guest the same question. So I'm going to ask you, Tolu, what are your three top tips to help our listeners get a little bit richer?

Tolu: The first top tip I would say is to learn a new skill. So learn that skill which you can eventually monetize. So commit to reading about it, listening to audiobooks, listening to podcasts. Learn as much as you can about that subject area so that you can become very knowledgeable about it. But don't just stop there. The second tip I would say is to practice that skill. So it's one thing learning, it's another thing actually applying what you've learned. So commit to becoming an expert in that area, or at least very competent.

So I don't know if you know about the 20 hour rule. If you spend 20 hours learning a particular skill, you can become very competent in it. So if you say I'm going to commit 20 hours to learning this skill, I will eventually become competent at it and I can then monetize it. And I guess the third thing I would say to become a little bit richer is to believe in yourself and trust in your ability to monetize that side hustle.

Kia: Amazing. I love that Tolu, and especially ending it on that believe in yourself. Yeah, I love that. That's a good way to end. It makes you believe in yourself everyone listening. Thank you so much, Tolu. You've shared some impeccable gems and some very useful ways that people can increase their income. That has been very helpful.

Thank you so much to Tolu for another great episode. So you know the drill by now, hit follow, leave a review and tell a mate. Also, if there's anything you'd like me to discuss on future episodes, get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels. Thank you for listening.

Kia: Welcome to another episode of A Little Bit Richer. This is Kia, and today we're talking ISAs. We touched on them in a few earlier episodes, but we're diving a little bit deeper. You may notice at this time of the year there's always a bit of a buzz around ISAs because we're approaching the end of the tax year, the last chance to use your annual allowance. And in the recent budget, a new ISA was announced, so we thought it would be great to explain the basics including when an ISA is a good idea and when it probably isn't.

A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. So who better to talk about this topic than the ISA product manager at Legal & General, Fahad Ahmed. Welcome, Fahad.

Fahad: Hi, Kia. Thanks for having me.

Kia: Thank you for coming. So, could you talk us through what ISAs are and the different types and why could an ISA be useful to some of our listeners?

Fahad: Absolutely. So, ISAs, it stands for an individual savings account and it's a tax efficient way for you to either save or invest your money. What that means is you don't have to pay tax on any returns that you get, which is obviously it's a great thing because it means more money in your pocket.

There's a few different types of ISAs. So, we've got stocks and shares ISAs, cash ISAs, lifetime ISAs, and there's even junior ISAs, which is for under 18s. We're going to talk more about what each ISA is and when they might be appropriate. But a key thing to bear in mind is that you don't have to pick just one. You can mix and match. Just as long as you don't go over your annual allowance, which is 20K.

So, just as an example, you could put 1, 000 pounds into a stocks and shares ISA. You could put 500 pounds into a cash ISA, and if you want, you could put 4, 000 pounds into a lifetime ISA. At the moment, you're only able to save or invest into one of each type of ISA in a tax year. However, this is going to be changing next month. In the new tax year, you'll be able to save or invest into multiple ISAs of the same type.

Kia: So, you've explained what they are, which is great, but why could an ISA be useful to some of our listeners?

Fahad: It's a way of investing or saving where you don't have to pay tax. So, that's a wonderful advantage. They're a good way, especially stocks and shares ISAs, you can see really good long- term growth.

Kia: Amazing. So, let's just say you might have some money and you want to save it, right? But you might need it in the next few years. So, opening a cash ISA might be the option that you go for. Can you give us a bit more detail on these accounts?

Fahad: Yeah, for sure. So, a cash ISA is a type of savings account where you don't have to pay tax on the interest that you earn. It's good for shorter term savings. When we're saying shorter term, we're talking about under five years. There's a few different types of cash ISAs. So, you've got instant access cash ISA, so that you can access your money as and when you like. You've got fixed rate cash ISAs, so this is where you put your money away for a fixed period of time, it is usually between one and five years.

Then you've got something called notice cash ISAs. When you want to take money out of this, you've got to give a certain period of notice, usually 30 days, 60 days, or 90 days. And then finally, you have regular cash ISA or regular saver cash ISAs. So, with these you have to commit to putting in a certain amount every month.

The thing to bear in mind with these is that there's usually a trade- off between flexibility and the interest rate that you get. So, for example, with the instant access cash ISA, since that one's the most flexible, it's generally going to offer the lowest interest rate. Another thing to bear in mind is that the interest rate that you get, it can vary quite widely depending on which provider you go with.

If you've decided you want to go for a cash ISA, you want to do your research and compare different providers and make sure you're getting the best rate out there. The best way to do this is just to jump onto Google, search best cash ISA, and then what you'll get is comparison websites. If you go onto these websites, then in a very simple way, they'll lay out tables and things like this and they'll make it very easy for you to identify which ISA has the best rate for you.

Kia: I think that's really good, like you said, comparing the different rates and understanding the trade- off between the different types is what you need to factor in depending on what your goal is for your money.

A question that I know a lot of people will have is how safe is their money? I think that's all that people think. You're saving big amounts, but is my money safe? So, is your money safe if you're putting it into something like a cash ISA?

Fahad: So, what you need to make sure when you do pick a provider, you need to make sure that it's UK authorized and somewhere on the provider's website there should be mention of something called the FSCS, and this stands for Financial Services Compensation Scheme. This will make sure that your money is safe and secure up to 85,000. Now, obviously, we said the cash ISA limit is 20,000 a year, but just in case you're somebody who's really fortunate and has that much money, can accumulate that over the years, up to 85, 000 pounds, your money will be safe and secure.

Kia: So, if someone were to open up a standard savings account, so i. e., not an ISA account, would they still need to pay tax on any interest that they earn?

Fahad: Not necessarily. So, we do also have something called a personal savings allowance. Now, if you are a basic rate taxpayer, that means you're currently paying 20% in income tax, you have a personal savings allowance of 1,000 pounds. So, what this means is that you can earn up to 1,000 pounds in interest before you have to worry about paying any tax on that.

If you are a higher rate taxpayer, so you're paying 40% in income tax, your personal savings allowance is 500 pounds. And that means you can earn up to 500 pounds in interest without having to pay tax on it. If you earn, let's say for example, 550 pounds, the 500 pounds, tax- free, and that additional 50 pounds you'll have to pay tax on that.

So, if you are just saving, let's say, a couple of hundred pounds, or even in the low thousands, it might be the case that a standard savings account is actually better than a cash ISA, because you can find sometimes they have better rates.

What I would say, though, is if you do go for a standard savings account, make sure that you're keeping an eye on your balance, especially if you're putting money in on a regular basis every month, because situations can change quite quick. You might think, oh, you're miles away from actually exceeding your personal savings allowance, but let's say you get a salary increase that pushes you to be a higher rate taxpayer, then your personal savings allowance is going to half just like that. So, just keep an eye on it and be prepared that at some point over the coming months or years, just be ready that it might be a good option to transfer your money to a cash ISA.

Kia: That's really good to highlight. I think a lot of people don't realize that they have a personal savings allowance.

Fahad: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kia: So, like you said, it's just keeping in mind how much you earn and how much tax are you paying and what does that mean for your savings? And maybe do you need to switch to an ISA that's going to be better suited for you? But as we always say, personal finance is personal, so make sure you're making decisions that's best for your personal situation.

Let's move on to investing. So, if someone is considering investing in the stock market, could a stocks and shares ISA be worth taking a look at?

Fahad: Yeah. So, I'm going to be a little bit biased because of my job, but I absolutely love stocks and shares ISAs. So, first of all, you've got that tax- free element that we spoke about. So, any money that you make through gains in the stock market, you don't have to worry about paying tax on it.

The good thing about stocks and shares ISAs is that if you invest for the long term and we're talking about over five years, you can generally expect to see better returns than what you would see if you just left your money in, let's say, your current account or even a cash ISA. So, that's another thing that's really good.

I do need to stress though that with stocks and shares ISAs, it's an investment and when we're talking about investing, it's all about the long term. It's all about that minimum five years. That's the key number to remember. But the longer you leave your money invested, the more chance there is that you'll actually see positive returns. As I said, though, it's an investment, so your money, it will go up and down and you could actually get back less than you put in.

Kia: Investing, it's always that thing, people are thinking about the future, thinking about how they can grow their money and it's a good thing to have a look at. If you do want to start investing, it's a good account to definitely have a look at.

Fahad:The thing is, it's really good for beginners and that's the thing that's so good about it.

Kia: I agree.

Fahad: So, even if I think back to myself before I had opened a stocks and shares ISA, let's go back a few years, so even before I was working in financial services, anything like that, when I had just graduated, I was actually working in retail at the time. And it was the first time I had a little bit of money coming in each month that I didn't have an immediate need for it. I could actually put it aside for the long term. And obviously, we've heard of this term investing and it's something I've heard of and I'm thinking, " Maybe I should invest some of this money." But the thing is, at the time I thought it was something that was so far away from me.

Kia: Right? It seems like a Wolf of Wall Street, that kind of stuff, that's so far away from reality.

Fahad: Exactly, Kia. I thought it was for people that, like you say, Wolf of Wall Street, they look a bit different to us. They've definitely got more money than us. So, to be honest, I put it aside for a while, I didn't think it was accessible for me and I found it a little bit daunting. But when I came across stocks and shares ISAs and in particular the options they have for how you can invest in it, that's when I realized, oh, actually, this could be for me.

So, if it's okay, I could just touch on those different options for how you can invest in a stocks and shares ISA. So, there's two main options. The first one is what we'd call a DIY approach. So, this is where you pick your own investments. You can pick things like corporate bonds, government bonds, unit trusts. You can even go as far as to pick your own individual company shares. And for me, back then, that's what seemed a little bit daunting. To be honest, even today, that would make me a little bit nervous.

Kia: It's a lot. It's very hands-on, isn't it?

Fahad: Exactly. Exactly. So, for me, it's not really the one. What I like is the second option, which we call managed portfolios. Now, with a managed portfolio, you can take a step back, you invest your money and you leave it to the professionals, you leave it to the investment experts to invest your money on your behalf.

The only thing that you've got to do is pick what level of risk you want to take. So, providers that have this option, they'll generally have a couple of managed portfolios, maybe three, maybe five, that all have a different risk rating. So, you've just got to decide whether you want to go for the lower risk one, a medium risk one, a higher risk one. Sometimes you'll see different terminology. They might use words like cautious, adventurous, things like this, but it's the same concept. And it's great for beginners because you don't have to have a huge amount of knowledge. You can just take a step back, let the professionals do their thing.

Kia: I'm glad you touched on that because I think it is good to highlight that you don't have to be an investing whiz to start, especially with stocks and shares ISA, there's something for everyone. I think that's a good thing when it comes to ISAs.

So, we've mentioned how good these different accounts are and how they work, but what should someone be looking for when it comes to picking the right provider for them?

Fahad: So, there's a few different things. I've already mentioned options for how to invest. Those two options that I said, not all providers will have both of them. Some providers have both. Some will only have one. So, it's decide beforehand which of those two options is more appealing for you and then find a company that provides that option.

Another thing would be, so I spoke about that misconception about, I thought you needed more money. So, that's another thing that people should take into account when they're picking a provider. So, I don't know how it was back in the day, but nowadays, it's actually very accessible and with a lot of providers you can get started with just very small amounts. So, our Legal & General stocks and shares ISA, for example, you can get started with just either 20 pounds a month or a 100 pound lump sum.

And that's not just ours. I know, a lot of our peers, you can also get started with similarly small amounts, but there may be some providers where you need a minimum of 5,000 pounds, 10,000 pounds. So again, that's another thing to take into account when picking a provider. Another thing is fees. Now fees is-

Kia: Big one.

Fahad: Yeah, big one, because it's going to impact how much money you actually get in your pocket. So, this is something you want to check. Just bear in mind when you're checking fees, they don't all charge fees in the same way. So, some providers, they're going to charge a fee as a percentage of your overall investment. Other providers, they're going to charge a flat monthly fee. So, just bear that in mind when you're checking.

Other things to check is see whether or not you can change where your money is invested. And by that I mean, remember we were talking about the managed portfolios? Maybe at the start you want to go for something that's higher risk.

Maybe at some point your circumstances change, you want to move your money into a more cautious portfolio. So, check whether this is possible to do and if it is, just check if there's any charges associated with that, because that varies between different providers.

So, there's another one I wanted to speak about, which is certain people might have certain values that come from a religious perspective, so these people, they should check whether they provide something called Shariah compliant funds. I've seen some research recently that suggests that a lot of people in our community, I'm speaking as a Muslim, a lot of us, we're not actually aware that there's these options that exist to get the benefits and the advantages of investing, in a way that doesn't compromise our faiths and our beliefs. So, I really just want to highlight that.

A lot of providers, they do have Shariah compliant funds and these will not invest your money in things such as gambling or alcohol companies. Anything that is not permissible in our faith, we can rest assured our money won't be invested in that. A lot of people, they're not aware that these exist and it would be a shame if people are missing out. That doesn't need to be a barrier to getting involved with investing.

Kia: I agree with you. I'm really glad you brought that up because like you said, there is something for everyone and I think even you highlighting that just goes to show that everyone can benefit from having an ISA.

Fahad: 100%.

Kia: So, let's move on to other types of ISAs. A big one for people who want to get on the property ladder is the lifetime ISA or the LISA. So, it does seem like a really good one if you want to buy a property one day, isn't it?

Fahad: Yeah. Yeah, a 100%. So, the LISA, like you say, it's great for people that want to get on the property ladder, but they don't own any property just yet. It's aimed towards younger people. So, if you're between the ages of 18 and 39, you can put up to 4, 000 pounds into a LISA every tax year and the government will actually top this up by an additional 25%.

So, just to give you an example, give you some numbers. If you were to max this out over five years, you would've accumulated 20,000 pounds in your savings account, in your LISA, and the government will put another 5K on top of this.

Kia: It's a good chunk of money.

Fahad: It's great and it's genuinely, it's free money.

Kia: That's my favourite word. Free. I love that.

Fahad: There you go. So, obviously Kia and me are getting quite excited about this.

Kia: Yeah, we are.

Fahad: But, and there is always a but, there are some rules that I've got to tell the listeners. So, if for any reason you don't want to use your money to buy a house, you can alternatively use it for retirement savings, but that means you can't really touch it until you're the age of 60. If you want to withdraw your money before you turn 60 and it's not to buy a property, there's going to be a 25% penalty. And some people have a misconception that the 25% penalty just means that you lose your 25% bonus. But actually, without getting too deep into the maths of it, you're going to lose your government bonus, but you're also going to lose about 6% of your initial investment.

Kia: It’s good to know.

Fahad: Yeah, people should think long and hard before they open one. Like we've said, they are really great, but if you're thinking maybe renting is better for your lifestyle, maybe you're thinking about moving abroad, perhaps the LISA is not for you. Just bear that in mind.

Kia: Yeah, it's good. I'm glad you highlighted that. And it's also good to note that a lot of people have opened it up and think, " Right, I can just put money in there and I can use it straight away." You also need to have it open for 12 months before you can use it towards your first property.

Fahad: There you go. There you go.

Kia: There are some caveats to keep in mind, but I think overall the lifetime ISA is a good one to have a look at if you do want to get on the property ladder one day.

Fahad: 100%. And while we're talking about the rules, there's just one more we should have probably mentioned, and that's the fact that the property that you purchase, it has to be under the price of 450K.

Kia: You've given us a lot of food for thought there, so anyone who's in between that questions for them, I think, like you said, it's up to people's personal circumstance, but there's lots of information you've given us that people can pick what's going to be best for them.

There have been a few changes recently when it comes to ISAs, so can you give us a bit more of an explanation of what the changes are?

Fahad: So, from next month where we see the new tax year begin, we're actually going to be able to put money into multiple ISAs of the same type. So, just as an example, you can open a stocks and shares ISA with one company and put 1, 000 pound in, and then you can open a stocks and shares ISA with another company and put 500 pounds in. Right now, that's not allowed. Next month, that will be allowed.

And then the other one, which was just mentioned the other day in the spring budget, something called the British ISA, and this is an additional 5K allowance on top of your existing 20K allowance, specifically designed for UK investments. At the moment, there's not too much more we can say on it. It's just been announced and we don't have too many details. What I would say is if it is something that sounds like it's of interest to you, just listen out for further updates.

Kia: That's really good. Keep your ear on the ground. But there's been some good changes for people to hear about when it comes to what's been announced recently. And also, you can move parts of your money, can't you? You can move bits from one ISA to another. You don't have to move whole lump sums. Right?

Fahad: Exactly. There you go.

Kia: I love that. Some good changes. Good changes. Right. Before we round off this episode, could you share your top three tips when it comes to ISAs?

Fahad: Absolutely. So, my first top tip would be ... We've spoken a lot about long- term investing and things like this, but my first top tip would actually be, make sure you've got a sum of money, a pot of money that you have instantly accessible to you. So, it's what people would refer to as an emergency fund. It can be in a cash ISA, an instant access cash ISA. We never know what the future's going to hold, so just make sure you've got that instantly accessible.

My second top tip would be, and this comes from personal experience, if you are opting for a stocks and shares ISA, there's no need to be checking your balance every single day. There's no need to be doing that. I made this mistake, I just wanted to look at it all the time. But the thing is, you have to remember, your money's going to go up and down and it's a long- term investment. So, if you do fall into the trap of checking it maybe a bit more than you should initially and you're in the red and your money's gone down, there's no need to panic. Remember, it's a long- term game. You're investing for a minimum of five years. No need to panic if it's down after a couple of days, weeks, or even months.

My third top tip would be do your own research and choose what's right for you. So, Kia touched on it earlier, personal finance, it's called personal because it's personal.

Kia: It is.

Fahad: And it depends on what's happening in your own life and your own circumstances. We spoke a lot today about a lot of different options, a lot of different accounts. Take your time, do your own research. And what's right for your best friend, or your dad, or Kia, or me, it might not necessarily be what's best for you. That's my third top tip.

Kia: Fahad, that was a great one to end on. I love that. Make sure you do your research and pick what is best for you. Thank you so much for gracing the podcast and just sharing your gems when it comes to ISAs.

Fahad: Thank you so much, Kia.

Kia: Next time, I'll be having a friend of the show, Andy Webb, back to talk to us about switching bank accounts and getting the most out of your account. In the meantime, I'd love it if you shared the podcast, tell a mate, leave a review and help other people start getting a little bit richer.

And if there's anything you'd like me to discuss on future episodes, get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels. You can also see some fun behind the scenes videos and exclusive tips from a range of our experts. A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. Thank you for listening, and see you soon.

Kia: Hey, this is Kia, and today I'm asking, are all bank accounts equal? What benefits and features can you get? A lot of us sign up with a bank and stick with them for life, but what's the cost of loyalty, and more importantly, can we get a little bit richer by switching allegiance?

Welcome to another episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by my friends at Legal & General. To help us figure all this out is a friend of the show, Andy Webb, host of the Cash Chats podcast and the man behind the award-winning Be Clever With Your Cash blog.

Welcome back, Andy.

Andy: Hey, Kia.

Kia: A lot of people open a bank account and stay with the company forever after, but they may be missing out. Some banks offer a cash bonus to switch, and a new account could offer extra features, a free overdraft facility, and other rewards. When is it time to switch bank accounts, and how easy is this process?

Andy: I'd say now. Now's the time to switch. If you've got a current account and it doesn't do anything for you, there's no perks, there's no features, it's a frustrating online banking experience, there's no reason why you should stick with them. We'll talk about switching properly in a second, but I do want to say first of all is you don't have to switch to change bank. There's no limit to how many current accounts you can have. I've lost count. It's my job, right? So obviously I have to kind of look at different account stuff. I've got like 14, 15 current accounts, and that's fine. It's not a problem.

So you can open up extra accounts for some of these features, but there are reasons to switch and if you do want to switch, it is really, really, really simple. So effectively, you open up that new current account that you want to go to, and then during the application process, near the end it says " Do you want to switch your bank?" And if you do, it will... Basically this thing called the current account switch in service, and this has a guarantee. So within seven working days they will move all the money that's in your existing current account over to the new account. They will transfer the standing orders, the direct debits.

They're going to come out. You don't have to go to your gas company or whoever it is and get them to change it. It's all done for you, really nice and simple, and so it's all done within seven working days.

And if something goes wrong, and I've done this so many times, nothing's ever gone wrong, but sometimes it could go wrong. If it does go wrong, then you would get compensation. It's important to say, when you do this, this is known as a full switch, that the old current account is closed down. So that doesn't mean you have your new account details, new sort code, new debit card. The only thing that doesn't get transferred across basically is anything you've made a payment with that long card number on that debit card. Those things you're going to have to go into again and put new card details in. Everything else, moved over in seven working days.

And also, it doesn't stop there, because the old bank will forward on any extra payments effectively, forever. Let's say, in a year's time, you've gone out for dinner with a mate, you've split the bill, but they haven't got the cash, they need to transfer it to you. They've got your old account details, it's fine. That will just almost straight away appear in your new account, so you don't have to worry really about anything at all. That's a full switch.

There is something called a partial switch which doesn't have that guarantee, but if you did want to keep the old account open, but you wanted to move the direct debits over or whatever it might be, you can do a partial switch. Not all banks will let you do that, but it's just worth knowing it does exist as well.

Kia: I'm glad you mentioned how easy it is to switch, because sometimes it can feel overwhelming. You're like, " Okay, I need to move things over and I've got to manually do this, that, and a third." But there is, like I said, the current account switch service, or CASS, that is there to do it, and that guarantee gives you peace of mind to know that if anything goes wrong, you're completely covered. And a lot of people are under this idea that you can't have more than one or two, because maybe it's part of your credit score or... It doesn't really have an effect, does it?

Andy: I think we're talking in a moment about there is a kind of an element you to be aware of your credit score when you do this, but ultimately, if you do it sensibly, I think there are advantages. And also sometimes banks have problems with the apps, and they go down for a day. We don't like it, but sometimes it happens. If you've got more than one current account and you've got some money in those other current accounts, at least you can kind of get by, and you could still do stuff. So there there's lots of really good reasons to have more than one.

Kia: Exactly. I agree with you. So we won't get too specific because things can change very quickly, but there are some great rewards that you can get from switching, so let's go through a few of them together.

Andy: Yeah. The big one where you absolutely have to switch and do a full switch to get it is the cash bonus. I made thousands of pounds doing this, and this is when the switching offers were around like a hundred quid and stuff. Now, the last couple of years, we've been seeing some of them going up to 200 quid if not beyond that, and that's basically a bribe. The new bank saying, " Hey, look, come over to us, and we'll give you cash." And that is a really good reason. If you need some money, a really good reason to go ahead with a switch.

Other reasons you might want to change your bank, and you might want to switch this or open up an additional account to get it. Again, there are so many. A lot of them offer little perks, so maybe free cinema tickets or free Disney plus, things like that. Some of them might have linked savings accounts that you can only get if you have their current account, and those rates that have on those accounts often amongst the best ones out there. Oh, there's so much. I mean, you mentioned about overdrafts before. There aren't many of these, but some of them will give you a naught percent overdraft over a small buffer or for a year. Again, that could be a really big help when it comes to debts.

Another big reason to change your bank again is that the online banking and the app, some of these newer banks, and they're not even new anymore, they've been going for such a long time, but the day- to- day banking, so much easier. From the ground up, they've been designed, these apps, to do that. So again, a really good reason to change your bank. Again, there's so many more, but they're the kind of headline ones.

Kia: I think that's great. There's so many rewards out there that people just don't realize, but if you just made that switch, I mean obviously some people, they feel like they want stay one bank, fine, but if you do want to switch, like you said, you've made thousands. That's good. It sounds like a little side hustle. You've got us a little side hustle hack there. You can get free cinema tickets, all those kind of things. It's really good to have a look at. But for anyone who's considering it, how can they compare between different accounts and to make that decision a lot easier for them?

Andy: Yeah. I think you've really got to look at what's on offer and look at the bank's own site. They'll take you through those different features, those savings accounts, the rewards, whatever it might be. There are loads of videos and reviews that you can find online that will take you through the pros and cons on becleverwithyourcash.com. Like anytime there's one of those switching deals pops up, I'm writing a full analysis of that and telling you what you need to do.

Because some of these will have terms and conditions attached. It's not a simple case of you just do this. If you want that free cash, they might want you to deposit a certain amount of money in a certain amount of time, or have a couple of direct debits that come out every single month, or you have to check the app once a month.

Although for the switching deal or some of those ongoing offers, some of them might have fees. Now if you do everything right, then the rewards you get will wipe out the fee, but you've got to do it right, otherwise you might end up costing you money. So be really careful, all that stuff. Do check all those terms and conditions. But you do all that, I think it's going to be a nice and simple kind of process for you.

Kia: Absolutely. I think the last time I did it, I switched over but one of those caveats was that I had to deposit, I can't remember how much the money was, but a certain amount of money for six months before I could get that money into my account, and I had to make it a real process to remember to put that money in every month. I set an alarm, put it in there, and I finally got that reward. So it's just being aware.

Reading that fine print, that's what you're getting into. It's not just you can get 200 pounds to switch in, but maybe you have two direct debits, put a certain amount like you said. It's just being aware of what there is.

Andy: Yeah. And weigh up whether it's worth your time. I see some deals and I say to people that I personally wouldn't bother with it. They want it, they might do 20 transactions on your debit card every single month just to get two pounds. I'm like, "Actually, is it really worth your time?" And you might better off spending that time with some other kind of side hustle or just enjoying your life.

So you weigh these things up. Is it going to be worth the time you put into it? But overall, yeah, I mean you can have anything from just a couple of current accounts. We have a couple of rewards and features through to like you and I with quite a few.

Kia: Quite a few.

Andy: There is admin with that.

Kia: Yes, there is.

Andy: You've got to keep on top of it, but you can cycle money throughout the different accounts, all that kind of stuff. So it is definitely manageable, but maybe build up to that.

Kia: Build up to that. So let's go back to banks then. There's this debate that's always going on, and it's traditional banks. So when we say that we're talking about your typical brick- and- mortar banks, maybe like HSBC or Nationwide versus digital banks, which is like Monzo and Starling. What should people look out for to decide what's actually better for them? So how can we know what's better, and what are the important things that we should look out for?

Andy: Yeah. There's no right or wrong answer here. The digital banks have some of the best apps out there, and they are obviously great ways to do your everyday banking, but you don't have access to branches. A lot of people go, "Does that really matter how often?" When did you last go into your branch?

Kia: A few years ago.

Andy: Yeah. And that's why we're seeing so many branches closing. So it might well be that the other banks, there isn't a branch on your high street anyway, but it's something to be aware of. If you do want branch access, then you want to prioritize a bank that does have one near you, at least for the time being. So that's a big thing there. And as I said before, I would always have more than one account anyway. So if you have got a digital bank, I like to have a high street bank as well, one of the ones that has some of those features that we spoke about, just to kind of balance things out.

There are a handful of digital banks that you need to be aware of because they're not fully licensed bank in the UK yet. They are applying for this license. They haven't got it yet. And the key ones here, the time we're recording this, are Revolut and Monese. So they are ones which don't have the financial services compensation scheme protections amongst other things. Now, this is about where, if they were to go bust, any money held would be protected up to a massive 85,000 pounds. So just be aware of that, that there is a risk there.

Kia: Yeah, that is good to know. I think, like I said, having a hybrid, it is the best of both worlds. But it is hard. I don't think you can pick one that's better. I think that hybrid works nicely. So let me ask you then. We've spoken about the benefits of switching. There's a lot of rewards you can get, and it sounds great. So is it worth regularly switching accounts to get the latest offers, or are there any downsides that we need to be aware of apart from obviously the admin that comes with it?

Andy: Yeah, so a couple of things. Obviously, when you're doing the full switch, as we mentioned before, this does close your old current account, and sometimes you might have a linked product, maybe a savings account, maybe a credit card, you never know, that has all these great features and benefits, but they're only available to you if you have the current account. So just double check, if you haven't, what's going to happen to that. It might be that it's closed down or you lose the rate or you have to start paying a fee or whatever it might be. So check that stuff first of all.

But other than that, I think the big thing to think about here is the impact on your credit score, particularly if you're doing repeat switching. Because every time you open up a new current account, the vast majority of the time, you're going to have a hard search appear on your credit report that will last for 12 months. It's going to stay on there. The more of these that you do, the bigger the impact that's going to have on your credit report.

Now, if you haven't got anything big coming up in the next year, you don't need to get a 0% percent transfer or purchase credit card, you don't have to do a remortgage or a first mortgage application, things like that, there's nothing major coming along and your credit score is relatively healthy, then in a year's time, that will drop off, it's not going to be an issue.

You can do a number of them, space it out every three months is an ideal way, and this is all your credit applications, not just bank accounts. But spread them out, just to reduce that kind of impact. But I know, I've done it myself, where I've done a number in a short space of time. You need to make that decision for your own personal situation.

So that's important to know, just spacing that out. But there is another impact that switching explicitly will have on your credit report, and that's because it's that closure again of that account, that existing account. Because if you've had that for two years, five years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever, we talked beginning about how maybe you had opened it and then you've still got it, you've never done anything about it.

That longevity, that kind of indication of loyalty, that is also a really good signal in your credit report. And when that account closes, you lose that, and the only way to build it back up...

Kia: Is to stay with another bank for a long time again.

Andy: time. Yeah. So what I generally say to people, a little hack that I suggest to get around that, is to not close. Never switch that main account. Because you can open up what I call a dummy account. So it's just a separate current account. You open it up, and the only reason you're opening up this current account is you're going to use it to switch, to get that free cash, right? Open it up, credit check most of the time for that, then open up the account you want to switch to to another credit check. So that's two credit checks in a short space of time, so just be aware of that.

But you do the switch, you get your free money, and the old one's still there. That loyalty is not gone. And then if you want to, that account you've switched to for the cash, well that could be another dummy account, and you can switch that one again, and again, and again. If you decide you get to an account you want to keep because of perks and benefits, well open up a different dummy account. So yeah, look into that little bit more. It's simple, but some things you need to be aware of, but they're the big things to think about.

Kia: I love the fact that you mentioned dummy account, because that was something that my dad had told me a while back when I got into switching rewards and all of that. And like I said, I had my (inaudible)  Bank that I'd been in for ages, and he said, " You know what, leave that." Like he said, " Leave it. The loyalty works in your favor, but open up a separate account you're not really that fussed about, and then you can use that."

And that's what I've been doing and it is a really, really good tip there. Keep in mind, the application's a short space of time, but it is a really good tip that you put out there.

So before we wrap up, Andy, what are your top tips for listeners when thinking about their choice of bank account?

Andy: So first of all, I would just remind everyone that you can have more than one current account. So as much as you feel you can manage, you can have all the different perks and features from a number of different accounts. If you're going to switch, set up that dummy account at least for that first switch so you don't lose that kind of loyalty that you've built up on your credit report from that existing account. And then whether it's open up a new account for a perk or whether you're switching, just check those terms and conditions because you want this to be making you money or giving you a better banking experience. You don't want it to be costing you cash.

Kia: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Andy. As always, as a friend of the podcast, you come and grace us with so much knowledge and gems. Thank you so much.

On the next episode of A Little Bit Richer, I'm going to be talking all about travel and how you can head on a holiday without breaking the bank. Don't forget, you can rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. Tell your mates and help them get a little bit richer too.

Tell us what you think and get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels where you can see some behind- the- scenes and get exclusive tips from a range of our experts. A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. Thank you for listening, and see you soon.

Kia: Hi. Kia here. If you follow me on social media, you will know how much I love to travel. In the last year, I've been to Spain, New York and Zanzibar. But while we all love to visit new places and have a break from the daily grind, money inevitably plays a big part in how elaborate our plans are.

So whether you're a solo  traveller or holiday with others, going on travel adventures is a big expense, especially these days. We want to find clever ways to head abroad without it feeling too much of a splurge.

Welcome to another episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by my friends at Legal & General. Here to help our money go further is the woman behind Big World Small Pockets, Steph Parker.

Welcome to A Little Bit Richer, Steph.

Steph: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Kia: Thank you for coming on. Right. So I want to get straight into this. As you heard, I love travel, but I want to start by asking you what sort of holidays offer better value?

Steph: I think there's two ways to think about this. So I think you've either got one option, which is stay in the UK so you keep your actual travel costs down, but you've probably got a bit of a pricier accommodation. Cost of living is a bit higher. Or you splurge a bit more on a plane ride and you go somewhere else where the cost of living might be cheaper. That's one key way to do it.

The other thing to remember is that the more research you do, the less you pay. So for example, I tend to avoid using tour operators. Instead, if you can plan your flights, your accommodation, your airport transfers yourself, you're going to save a lot of money.

And then if you still want to do some tours to particular sites when you're in a destination, that's totally fine. There's loads of sites like Get Your Guide or Via Tour that offer day or multi- day shorter trips, and that is a great way to keep your budget down then going with a tour for the whole of your holiday.

Kia: Absolutely, and I agree with what you said, booking it separately. As someone who's travelled a lot like you have, you can see the difference in the price when you book a package versus splitting it up and you see you save a lot more money when you actually go and seek out, let's say the flights and the accommodation and the transfers separately, it can all add up when it's all in a package.

Steph: Absolutely. Because you're happy to do your research. It does take a bit of time, but you can find some real deals. And don't forget, you're cutting out the middleman cost. If you are not using a travel agent, you're not having to pay for them. So doing research yourself, using price comparison websites, they're great ways to save on holidays.

Kia: Absolutely amazing. This is a question that I'm sure you get a lot because I'm going to ask you, is there a best time to book a holiday to get the best deal and can you suggest some ways that people can find the best prices?

Steph: When you're thinking about going to a destination, the first thing is forget school holidays. If you don't have kids-

Kia: Oh, out the window.

Steph: If you don't have kids and you don't have to travel in school holidays, don't. They're always much more expensive. I also really love traveling in what I call the shoulder season. So that kind tends to be the couple of months either side of the peak season.

So when we are thinking about Europe, might be May, June, September, October time because normally the weather's still good, but there's way less crowds and prices are cheaper as well. So shoulder season for the win.

And then when it comes to booking flights, yes you might find a flash sale down the line, but by and large you are always going to get the cheapest flights by booking as early as you can say two, even three months in advance, especially for long haul.

The reason is airlines have tiered tickets, so once they sell out of the cheapest tier, those seats are gone and you move up to the next tier in the pricing ranking. So doing it early is always better.

With hotels, it's the other way round, which is a sneaky tip because say your holiday's coming up in a few weeks' time. If those hotels have still got rooms available, they want to shift them. They want to sell those nights.

So booking as last minute as possible that you feel comfortable with when it comes to hotels is definitely the best way because they'll start dropping their rates the nearer it gets to the time that you want to stay there. So hotels late, flights early is the best combination.

Kia: That's the best combo. Do you know what? When it comes to booking hotels late, I'm glad you said that. I think the latest I've ever booked it, which did give me anxiety, I want to put it out there, so I wouldn't recommend it for people, was when I was in the airport about to get my flight and I had no accommodation.

This when I was going to Thailand, I had no accommodation booked and I was out there for 11 days.

I had no plan whatsoever and I was traveling with my friend and I said to her, " I'll handle it. I'll do the accommodation." So we got to the airport, she said, " Okay, where are we staying?" I said, " I have no idea. I have no idea." So we were trawling online, literally like an hour or two before I had to board our flight, but I got a really good deal.

Steph: Well, there you are. I was going to say, did you get a bargain?

Kia: But, I will say, it was a bit prickly.

Steph: Yeah, that's bold. I think I might've done that when I was younger. Now not so much. Yeah. And if you've got the luxury of time, say you're backpacking for longer or traveling for a few months, yeah, you can be a bit more flexible. If you've got a week, you might-

Kia: I was pushing it. I was pushing it. I was very much, and I can hold my hands up. I was definitely pushing it so I wouldn't recommend it, but like you said, last minute's always good. Maybe a couple of days before, not the day of. That's what I-

Steph: A couple of days sounds reasonable.

Kia: A couple of days is good, yeah.

Okay. And what about ideas to consider when actually looking for accommodation? You mentioned obviously you want to book as often as possible to get the best deals, but when you're actually looking, there is so much choice out there now.

Before it used just to be you got to book a hotel, but there are so many different variations of accommodation. What should people consider when they're looking for accommodation?

Steph: I think you really need to think about the type of holiday that you want to have. If you're happy to self- cater, which can be a great way to save money, then Airbnb's apartments awesome choice for you. There's actually a new company called Vrbo. They're like Airbnb. You might have find some better deals on there as well.

Hotels, if you really want to relax. If you don't want to do the washing up, if you don't want to go to the supermarket, think about that because if it's your holiday of the year and you want to have a good time, it might be worth spending a little bit more to go in a hotel if you don't want to do all the other tasks, cooking and cleaning and all those sorts of things.

House sitting's great if you're on a longer trip. So if you're traveling for perhaps a few weeks or even a few months, then house sitting can be a great option as well.

People will give you their house to look after for free if they've got pets or they just want someone to stay there and they're verified. There's review systems. It's that kind of process and you can do that all online as well.

So it's really about thinking about the type of holiday that you want to have and matching accommodation for that and thinking that sometimes when you spend a little bit more, you might get more of the experience that you're looking for and that is actually good value.

Kia: Absolutely. I think it's not all just about the numbers. This is the cheapest and we're going to go for that. It is like you said, do I want to relax? Have I had a stressful time at work and I just want to put my feet up? Maybe Airbnb and figuring out breakfast, lunch and dinner isn't the way to go.

Maybe I will go for a hotel. Like I said, it is personal circumstances. I've done pretty much all of them and they've all offered different experiences. It's just figuring out what kind of holidays do I want.

Steph: Exactly.

Kia: So for anyone looking to get a good deal, what about price comparison sites?

Steph: Always use a price comparison site to start. They're a great place to begin your research for budget travel. When it comes to flights, top tip, remember to use an incognito browser when you're searching because it is true that they track your cookies and the prices go up the more you look so incognito browser.

And if you're flying with a budget airline, I always go direct to their website because it's cheaper to add baggage on at the end of the booking process rather than one of the packages that you get priority boarding and all these things that you don't need to add on, just add the luggage and it's best to do that for budget airlines direct with them.

Kia: Amazing. What about hotels?

Steph: Hotels, I use it for research. So I always look on a price comparison website like booking. com or hotels. com to find the kind of hotels or places that I want to stay. Lots of them do Airbnbs or apartments now as well.

But then I go direct to the hotel. And the reason is the hotels have to pay these price comparison sites a commission, so that can be up to 17%. So if you go direct, you can normally negotiate a discount of around 10%.

Kia: Wow.

Steph: And everybody's doing better on that. So yeah, give them a call or an email and you can normally work a better deal with hotels straight.

Kia: Amazing. So what's some of your favourites but more affordable places to discover?

Steph: Long haul if you're looking for a Safari, which I think is probably on everyone's bucket list-

Kia: For mine as well.

Steph: And it's one of my favourites too. South Africa is a real bargain right now. There's parks there where you can do south drives that make it really cheap, but otherwise cost of living there is quite affordable and it's such a diverse and amazing country to visit. Park entrances are cheap. So if you were looking for a budget Safari, South Africa is my tip.

Across in Asia, Sri Lanka is one of my absolute faves.

Kia: Really? Okay.

Steph: I went there for the first time last year and I was blown away. And again, super affordable.

If you're say looking for a luxury honeymoon, you can get five star hotels there for a fraction of the price that you would in Europe. There's beaches, the food's amazing, there's tea plantations, epic train rides. It's an all- round gem. So yeah, Sri Lanka, highly recommend.

Kia: Wow. Now I have to ask you, Steph, what are some of your personal favourite places to visit?

Steph: I'm going to give you my top five.

Kia: Okay. I want your top five. I'm ready for the list. Let's go.

Steph: It's Ethiopia.

Kia: Okay.

Steph: Lebanon.

Kia: Oh.

Steph: Georgia.

Kia: Yes.

Steph: Peru and Sri Lanka, which we've talked about.

Kia: Yes. That's a good list. But just to circle back, Georgia, we're not talking about the state.

Steph: No, right, we're talking about the country.

Kia: The country, okay.

Steph: Yeah, so on the edge of Europe, just the other side of Turkey. Again, I think I love these countries because they're really diverse. They're a bit off the beaten track, very affordable to travel. Georgia has amazing food and wine, mountains for hiking or skiing in the winter. History. It's just beautiful.

The people are so friendly and it's still in Europe, but it feels quite different and feels a bit unique and it's still a bit undiscovered as well. So get there before everybody else does.

Kia: Well, I'm booking my trip after this. I have to get there first now. So thank you for that insights there. Thank you.

Travel insurance, how can you make sure you get good value on your policy?

Steph: First of all, check if you already get travel insurance with your credit card or debit cards, anything else that you might be a member of if you get travel insurance there. If not, use a price comparison website to shop around and get the best deal. Special offers run all the time, so hop onto those if you can.

Think about your cover, the two main points that you want to make sure are covered are the most common things. So is it your electronics getting stolen? That might be a big thing for you. Is it baggage delay? Make sure the most important things to you get covered.

Look at the excess. No point going for a cheaper policy if the excess is huge because you're going to have to pay that if anything happens so often it's worth paying for a little bit more for a lower excess.

And if you're not heading to the US or North America, make sure you get a policy that doesn't include these countries because that will significantly reduce the price because medical health insurance tends to be a lot more expensive in those countries.

So choosing an insurance policy that doesn't include them, it's automatically going to be lower.

Kia: Amazing. How can you manage your spending while abroad?

Steph: First of all, do not eat in touristy areas. That is my 101. So even if you want to go out to a nice restaurant, often walking just 5, 10 minutes away from where you're staying, you can get a much more local place, much better deal.

If you're self- catering, same. Do local supermarkets. Make best use of those.

Think about walking, particularly in European cities, free walking tours. Use Google Maps to get around really easy. If not, use public transport where you can. Don't get a taxi from the airport. There's often transfers or shuttles. You can research that online before you go.

And find out if there's any travel card deals. Like you can use public transport for two, three days and you've got an unlimited card. Loads of places do that, and that often works out cheaper as well.

Kia: Brilliant. And now what are some of your favourite more affordable places to discover?

Steph: I'm a big fan of a budget travel hack. So instead of Croatia for example, which is growing really popular, think about Montenegro. Similar experiences, but for much less price.

Same, instead of going to Scandinavia, Norway, Finland really expensive, just a few kilometres away, Estonia, an amazing Nordic country for half the price. So I always think is there a cheaper country that offers the same kind of experiences, but for less?

Kia: So when you're abroad and you come to pay, it's always that thing, right? Do you pay in the local currency or do you go the conversion for example that is offered to you? What's the best thing to do when you come to pay?

Steph: Always go for the local currency. So if you've just eaten dinner and they've come over with a card machine for you to tap and pay, do not select pounds. Always select the local currency because what happens is the banks will convert it for you at less good rate.

So yeah, if you pay in the currency and you've got a card that has a great conversion rate on it, which you should, that is definitely the top tip.

Kia: Amazing. Lastly, I want to ask you, what are your three top tips on traveling smarter?

Steph: When it comes to traveling smarter, my three top tips are, first of all, check your roaming charges on your phone. If the country that you're going to isn't covered by free roaming, get an eSIM. They're amazing, work really well. Top hack.

Tip number two is check your debit card. Don't use it abroad if there's transaction or bad conversion fees. Get a card that allows you to take money out from the ATM or spend abroad for free. Take a spare card, leave that in your room in case one gets stolen, and always take a credit card if you plan to hire a car.

And the third tip is a filter water bottle. These are so good for just stopping the plastic waste and as well saving your budget a little bit on bottled water that you keep have to buy. You can fill them up from any tap in the world.

They've got inbuilt filters and it means you can safely drink the tap water anywhere. Game changer.

Kia: Game changer. I co- sign that one. I've been doing that as well. Amazing.

Steph, thank you so much. Travel's on everyone's mind and you've given us some tips and gems that we can take to book our next holiday. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Steph: Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.

Kia: Next time on A Little Bit Richer, we're looking at scams and what to watch out for. Don't forget you can rate, review and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. Tell your mates and help them get a little bit richer too.

Tell us what you think and get in touch via Legal & General's Instagram and TikTok channels where you can see some behind the scenes and get exclusive tips from a range of our experts. A Little Bit Richer is brought to you by Legal & General. Thank you for listening and see you soon.