
A Little Bit Richer
Iona Bain and guests will help you make smart money choices and get to grips with your finances for the longer term.
Latest episode
Iona: Hello, I am Iona Bain, and I am delighted to be the new host of A Little Bit Richer. We've got a fantastic new season coming up, all to help you make empowered choices with your money. This season, we'll be delving deeper into your finances with some great guests who'll share insights on making the most of your financial future. Now, for my first episode, we're doing something a wee bit different. We're turning the tables and I'll be answering the questions, instead of our guest. This week, I'm very pleased to be joined by friend of the show, Kim Brown. Now, Kim's been on the show a few times. She's a pension expert from Legal & General and super passionate about making sure people are doing as much as they can to build their pension savings when they're younger, to benefit from strong growth. Now, Kim, I think you've got quite a few questions for me, so without further ado, let's get into it.
Kim: Thanks, Iona, and welcome. I'm so happy that I get to welcome you as our new podcast host, and as you say, turn the tables, sit in the interviewer seat for a change.
Iona: Yeah, you're not in the hot seat. I am.
Kim: If we start with a bit of an intro to you, because our listeners have likely heard you, financial broadcaster, writing for national newspapers, as well as on their TV screens. You've written your own books. As a 30 something, you're very passionate about talking about issues, and opportunities and challenges faced by millennials. And I just wondered if we start with what's driven you and how you've got to where you are today?
Iona: Well, my background is not in finance. I am a trained musician. And after I left university, I actually spent a couple of years trying to be a pop star. I had to get it out of my system. And it was a great time, and I really enjoyed it. I didn't make a lot of money. You won't be terribly surprised to hear that, Kim. But I was out there in the big, bad world and realizing just a few years after the financial crash that things were a lot tougher than I thought they would be. And when I spoke to my friends, they were worried about their financial futures, too. So, I realized that quite possibly there was something much bigger going on in terms of my generation. But the actual trigger for writing about personal finance was when I was 23, I was working in a bar in Glasgow, playing piano with a singer.
And I used to get paid cash in hand. And I put this money in a piggy bank, which I kept actually at my parents' house, because by this point, I'd had to move back home to save money. So, one night we came home from one of my gigs and the house had been burgled. And of course, guess what was gone? Mr. Piggy Bank. So, a few hours later, a police officer had come to our house to take a statement, and I had to describe the piggy bank, whether it had a tail or not. Might've even had a pair of sunglasses on, because it was a cool piggy bank. All these things just made me feel so embarrassed that this was how I was saving money as a grown-up woman.
And I realized I needed to learn personal finance, because nobody was going to teach me this stuff. So, my dad actually suggested to me that I start a blog about money. And I initially thought, why would I do that? I know nothing about it. But actually, in a way, the fact that I didn't know very much about the subject, A, motivated me to learn more. And B, it helped me be relatable when I wrote about these issues, because people thought, " Well, she's like me. She's getting to grips with this stuff. She's finding it hard, too, but she's getting there. So, if she can do it, so can I." So, I started Young Money Blog in 2011, and the rest is history.
Kim: That's incredible. I think the number of people that have gone from pop star to financial broadcaster must be very small.
Iona: I believe I'm the only one so far, but who knows? Maybe in the future, that will become an accepted career route.
Kim: Yeah. Well, let's see, let's see.
Iona: Let's see.
Kim: So, moving from that piggy bank saving onto being able to comment on financial savings, what were the first steps that you would encourage people to take or that you personally took?
Iona: Well, I think what's really important is that we learn from our mistakes. Because actually, you probably learn an awful lot more when things go wrong in life, than when everything goes beautifully. Having said that, when it comes to money, I think there are some mistakes that are too big to make. And ideally, you want to learn the easy way rather than the hard way, and because I meet so many young people who have ended up learning the hard way. And actually, a lot of the time they end up channelling into blogs, social media accounts, sharing their journeys in terms of becoming debt free. And that's wonderful because, A, it's great to see people charting a path out of debt.
But B, people are also really brave for sharing their experience and helping us all learn from that experience, so that we don't have to go through what they've been through because I think all of them would say, " I would absolutely 100% avoid it." So, I feel that part of my job is to try to help young people see that there is an easy way to learn about these issues. Once you have avoided those mistakes, then you can build on that and start to create resilience. And you can start to budget, and save, and invest, and put money into your pension, and do all the really good things that we know you should do. But you can't do that unless you've got healthy foundations.
Kim: That's really, really interesting. You spoke at the beginning about your friends being in a similar position to you. I'm just at the top end of being a millennial. But if we talk about first that generation and what challenges you think they're particularly facing. I know you mentioned a couple there in terms of getting debt free and then looking to opportunities, but what would be your first messages first for millennials?
Iona: Well, the millennial generation now have really come of age. A lot of us are in our thirties, late thirties. Millennials have grown up. Millennials now, potentially, they're certainly saving for their own home, but they're potentially buying property as well. They are perhaps settling down. They're starting families. They're moving into that next stage of their careers. They're parents are getting older and they're thinking about how they can look after their parents as they age, too. So, they're heading towards that sandwich stage of life, where things can get really challenging in terms of your responsibilities and commitments. But I think that millennials for a very long time have really wrestled with this sense of arrested development, of feeling that they haven't been able to grow up as quickly as they would like.
And I think that's been incredibly frustrating for our generation. But I would say, don't beat yourself up. If you haven't achieved all those milestones before 30 or even 35, you're not a failure. You are just a product of the times that we're living in. And everyone has their own journey. I think one of the most important things that I've learned is that you can't compare yourself to anyone else. And once you start doing that, then you're bound to make mistakes. Then you're bound to start chasing after the wrong goals and you're no longer focused on what's right for you. So, my advice would be run your own race. Don't worry about anyone else.
Kim: Another one I think has been getting on the property ladder. Is that something you've managed to achieve?
Iona: I have. But full disclosure, I was really fortunate in my early twenties, that I got a bit of help from the bank of mum and dad. And this was money that my grandparents actually passed down, but my dad had very diligently kept it one side and then managed to grow in order to create a deposit for me and my brother, so that we could buy property together. Having said that, we still had to get a pretty run- down place and we had to put most of our money towards our mortgage. We didn't have a lot of money to do other things. And I think, for me, I have no regrets, because it put me in a really good position to then be able to buy my own place a few years ago, which has been one of the best decisions I've ever made.
But I am definitely not of the school of saying to people that they should buy their own place as soon as they can at the expense of absolutely everything else, because I think then that can lead towards people making bad choices. So, I meet a lot of young people who buy property, think they've done the right thing. But actually, they get buyer's regret quite quickly, because they didn't scope out the area that they were moving to. They start to feel quite lonely. The transport links aren't great. They've got a long commute to work or their circumstances change. I think sometimes in your twenties, it is good to keep your options open. So, my path is definitely not going to be the right path for everyone, but it was my ambition from quite an early age to have my own place. So, it was a dream come true when I achieved that goal a few years ago.
Kim: Thank you for sharing that. I'm a pensions specialist at L& G, so I've often been on the podcast talking about that. I couldn't not include a question. How do you balance the financial responsibilities today with future savings?
Iona: Well, full disclosure, Kim, I did not start a pension until I was in my thirties. I know. I know. For shame, for shame, let me explain myself. I've been freelance for most of my career. And with that I've needed to build up my earnings. I've needed to create a stable income and just ensure that actually I was able to keep working at certain stages. And that was my priority, because I felt in the long term, being able to make freelance life work would pay off in all sorts of ways. So, it was only when I got into my thirties that actually I had a stable enough income that I could start making plans, and that included setting up a pension for the first time.
And I'm now in the fortunate position where I can to some extent make up for lost time. I am putting a fair chunk of my annual income into my pension, and I'm hoping that I can catch up that way. But of course, it's not ideal, because really you want to have as much time in the stock market for your money to grow. And that is why starting a pension when you're in your early twenties is better than starting it, as I did, in my early thirties.
But you've got to think about the art of the doable. And for me, what was doable was starting a pension once I got to a more stable place in my career and had got on the property ladder as well. For other people that might just be staying in your workplace pension and making sure you don't opt out. In my view, that is better than saving nothing towards your retirement, because we all want to have an ideal scenario. We all want to be saving as much as we can, but we're not living in an ideal world.
Kim: Thanks for indulging me in a pensions question. We've talked a bit about millennials. I just wondered how you saw challenges and how they differ between the generations.
Iona: Well, I would say millennials have definitely been the drivers of what I would call responsible capitalism. So, that isn't just about responsible investing, making sure your pension is doing good in the world. It's also just about being a responsible consumer day- to- day, and trying to support local businesses, and being in the community. And then with Gen Z, I feel that there's this really exciting entrepreneurial, flexible mindset emerging. And again, it's because of the world that they've grown up in.
Lots of uncertainty. It has also made them really rethink what they want to do with their lives. It's made them want to have a very healthy balance between their working life and their personal life. And I think with trends like artificial intelligence and jobs that are rooted in the technological sector, only set to grow, I think that Gen Z are pretty well- placed actually to be able to take advantage of that exciting new world.
Kim: What are you saving for?
Iona: So, I would love to pay off my mortgage, because I don't want to be paying that in retirement. I think it's interesting that actually when it comes to saving for retirement, the advice generally is if you can try to reduce your housing costs, that's going to really ease the burden on your pension pot. So, that's definitely something I'm aiming for. And I would love to buy a bigger place, maybe with my other half, maybe start a family in the next few years. But it's really daunting, because the jump up in terms of how much that kind of property would cost, and how much I would need to save for it, and how much the deposit would be is really big. So, I feel that this is the defining problem of our generation, because even if you are able to get on the first rung of the housing ladder, can you actually go beyond that, or you just left dangling there?
Kim: When it comes to your finances, what personally drives you and what worries you?
Iona: Well, I feel that financial freedom is so important. It's not about having the best possible income you can get. Obviously, that solves a lot of problems, but actually it doesn't solve all problems, and it can create new problems. What you want to aim for is enough income so that you can pay for the things in life that really matter to you and that you can actually create some freedom to pursue other things in life that you enjoy. So, for me, being able to work enough so that I can get tremendous satisfaction from it, that's fantastic, but then also being able to have time for the other things in my life that I really value. There's a lovely quote from the author, Jonathan Swift, which I try to keep close to in my life. And that is, " Keep money in your head and not your heart." So, be smart about money, but don't let it become the be all and end all. Keep it in its place.
Kim: I love that. That really resonates. I'm often thinking about that balance between financial freedom, time freedom, and what you want to focus your energies on when you can.
Iona: So, what worries me is two things, that I'll never work again. As a freelancer, you have what I call the freelance freak out, where I'll wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, thinking someone's going to come along and tap me on the shoulder and say, " You're an imposter. Get out of here." And it's irrational, of course, it is. The other worry, which I think is more rational, is I would love to start a family in the future.
But I know that if I take time out of work to look after children, then I will have a drop in my income and that will affect my finances. It will also probably affect my pension. And as someone who has Destiny's Child collection, been an independent woman for most of my life, I wouldn't want to be too reliant on someone else. That would feel uncomfortable for me, but I accept that that might be something that I'll have to do in the future.
Kim: Looking ahead then to 2025, what trends do you see that could happen this year that might particularly impact our generation?
Iona: I think the big one to look out for is de- influencing. I think we're already starting to see this backlash against hyper- consumerist aesthetics on social media. The idea that if you just buy more stuff, then you can lead that glossy, glamorous lifestyle that you see espoused by influencers and celebrities on social media. I feel that the public is growing tired of that, actually, and that what they want to see is authenticity.
They want to see people living real lives, and that means wearing clothes more than once. It means not going out to fancy restaurants every week and just living a more frugal, simpler life. I feel that that is becoming fashionable, even on social media. And I think that trend is only going to continue this year. That and the use of cash. What's really interesting is these past two years, cash usage has gone up. And I think that's because people want to budget with cash. It's got a finite value, so I think people are going to be using cash even more this year.
Kim: Interesting. Thank you. Last question from me. So, apart from finances, and what you do for a living, and bringing in our podcast title here, what is it that makes you feel a little bit richer?
Iona: Investing in my health. That means viewing my membership to a swimming pool as being an investment rather than an expense, because it's really important for my mental and physical health to be able to go swimming. I absolutely love it. And also, buying good ingredients so that I can cook healthy meals at home. That's really important to me. Because I do a lot of traveling for my job, so I'm not always in control of what I eat. So, when I get home, I just love being able to cook nutritious, wholesome meals that makes me feel like I'm looking after myself.
And spending time with family and loved ones, obviously helps me feel really spiritually refreshed, but I also need time on my own. And actually, it's about striking that balance between the two. So, for me, feeling rich in my life generally is about having that time to reflect, mixed with that time to socialize and connect.
Kim: Thank you for sharing that. And it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. And I can't wait to hear the next episodes of A Little Bit Richer.
Iona: Thank you, Kim. This has been so much fun. Thanks so much for listening to my first episode of A Little Bit Richer. I am really excited to go on this financial journey with you all. Next time, Pete Gladwell will be here to tell us about the tangible ways our pension money is used to help build better and healthier communities. Well, I'd absolutely love it if you could follow the podcast, leave us a review, and help others get A Little Bit Richer, too. That's what it's all about. You can keep up with the show on TikTok, on Instagram, and on YouTube at Legal & General. Until next time, see you soon.
Recent episodes
Preparing for life's big moments
It can be hard to know where to begin when it comes to thinking about the future. We help you prepare for life’s milestones, from buying your first home to saving for retirement.
Listen back
Read more

How much should I put into my pension?

Pension myths
